hahaha
I wont let a -PvP into a party that I'm in... and I wouldn't let any cast on me anyway.
As far as I am concerned, they are outcasts. I want nothing to do with them. They simply aren't there. hehe
Drev
> ----------
> From: Ken Lee[SMTP:kenlee@...]
> Reply To: eq_wizards@onelist.com
> Sent: Friday, April 23, 1999 6:14 AM
> To: eq_wizards@onelist.com
> Subject: [eq_wizards] Re: Digest Number 18
>
> From: "Ken Lee" <kenlee@...>
>
> My mother used to tell me the same thing about asparagus. I still won't eat
> it. : )
>
>
>
> Zalbar
> 14th Wizard
> Solusek Ro
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Cuyle <johncuyle@...>
> To: eq_wizards@onelist.com <eq_wizards@onelist.com>
> Date: 22 avril, 1999 20:49
> Subject: [eq_wizards] Re: Digest Number 18
>
>
> >From: "John Cuyle" <johncuyle@...>
> >
> >Heh, wait until the only one around is PvP. Might change your mind then.
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: McCartney, Michael R <Michael.McCartney2@...>
> >To: <eq_wizards@onelist.com>
> >Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 2:06 PM
> >Subject: [eq_wizards] Re: Digest Number 18
> >
> >
> >> From: "McCartney, Michael R" <Michael.McCartney2@...>
> >>
> >> Na.. -PvPs can play fine by themselves. If they dont know how, then
> >thats not a disadvantage due to +PvPs not helping them out, its due to a
> >lack of knowledge. -PvPs dont need ANY help from +PvP... because any -PvP
> >can do the same thing... which makes your argument pretty much meaningless.
> >>
> >> > ----------
> >> > From: John Cuyle[SMTP:johncuyle@...]
> >> > Reply To: eq_wizards@onelist.com
> >> > Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 2:11 PM
> >> > To: eq_wizards@onelist.com
> >> > Subject: [eq_wizards] Re: Digest Number 18
> >> >
> >> > From: "John Cuyle" <johncuyle@...>
> >> >
> >> > No, because there are a lot of people who (For reasons which I don't
> >> > understand) play +PvP on a -PvP server. Really it hurts the -PvP the
> >most.
> >> > They are the ones that miss out on timely buffs, heals, and binds. The
> >> > types do mix, there is no way around it except to play on Zek, (which
> is
> >> > where I play, but is not for everyone) and there should be some sort of
> >fix
> >> > for this. I guess I'm just not so narrow minded to think that bugs
> >should
> >> > only be fixed when they apply to me.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: McCartney, Michael R <Michael.McCartney2@...>
> >> > To: <eq_wizards@onelist.com>
> >> > Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 1:54 PM
> >> > Subject: [eq_wizards] Re: Digest Number 18
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > > From: "McCartney, Michael R" <Michael.McCartney2@...>
> >> > >
> >> > > Kind've like how the whole argument of letting PKs cast non-offensive
> >> > spells onto nonPKs is meaninglessly mixing the two types of playing?
> >> > >
> >> > > Either you're playing the game PK, or you're not. Its simple. Deal
> >with
> >> > it.
> >> > > > ----------
> >> > > > From: John Cuyle[SMTP:johncuyle@...]
> >> > > > Reply To: eq_wizards@onelist.com
> >> > > > Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 1:52 PM
> >> > > > To: eq_wizards@onelist.com
> >> > > > Subject: [eq_wizards] Re: Digest Number 18
> >> > > >
> >> > > > From: "John Cuyle" <johncuyle@...>
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Of course a non PK could cast on someone while they are dueling as
> >well,
> >> > > > making your argument pretty much meaningless.
> >> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > > > From: McCartney, Michael R <Michael.McCartney2@...>
> >> > > > To: <eq_wizards@onelist.com>
> >> > > > Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 12:05 PM
> >> > > > Subject: [eq_wizards] Re: Digest Number 18
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > > From: "McCartney, Michael R" <Michael.McCartney2@...>
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > I agree. PK's should not be able to cast ANY spells on nonPKs.
> >The
> >> > > > reason is.. if you've got a friend who is a PK.. and you are>
> >dueling a
> >> > > > non-PK person... the PK person could heal you.. because he isn't
> >> > afraid of
> >> > > > turning PK.. he already is one. Yet the other person would get no
> >> > heals.
> >> > > > Not fair. The PK switch is there to seperate the different
> >societies.
> >> > PK's
> >> > > > have their server that they can play on. There is no reason to try
> >to
> >> > blend
> >> > > > with nonPK's..
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Drev
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > > ----------
> >> > > > > > From: Ken Lee[SMTP:kenlee@...]
> >> > > > > > Reply To: eq_wizards@onelist.com
> >> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 11:28 AM
> >> > > > > > To: eq_wizards@onelist.com
> >> > > > > > Subject: [eq_wizards] Re: Digest Number 18
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > From: "Ken Lee" <kenlee@...>
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > That's another annoying problem. I was running with a monk
> >that
> >> > > > became
> >> > > > > > pk (I'll use pk and nonpk because it's less confusing to me)
> and
> >the
> >> > > > cleric
> >> > > > > > in the party wouldn't help him at all. He even said, don't heal
> >me,
> >> > > > don't
> >> > > > > > buff me or you'll become pk. Very cool of him.
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > As to the looting issue, that's absurd. (In your favor) NO
> >ONE
> >> > > > should be
> >> > > > > > able to loot your body unless they personally killed you.
> >Another
> >> > point
> >> > > > for
> >> > > > > > you, and that's something that I think they need to address. I
> >> > didn't
> >> > > > know
> >> > > > > > that just anyone could pick stuff off your body. As a matter of
> >> > fact,
> >> > > > I'd
> >> > > > > > make looting a pk body that you didn't kill turn you pk. That'd
> >be>
> >> > more
> >> > > > > > reasonable I think. Believe me, no one's picking on you, maybe
> >> > taking
> >> > > > the
> >> > > > > > easy way out, but not singling out pk players.
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > As to coding the changes. It's more than likely that it's
> easier
> >to
> >> > make
> >> > > > > > them not be able to cast anything on you instead of being
> >selective.
> >> > As
> >> > > > a
> >> > > > > > matter of fact I KNOW it'd be easier that way. It's like having
> >1
> >> > switch
> >> > > > to
> >> > > > > > turn on all the lights in your house, or running around and
> >turning
> >> > some
> >> > > > on
> >> > > > > > and some off.
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > All in all though, I think that for the moment, it'd be better
> >to
> >> > just
> >> > > > enjoy
> >> > > > > > the game as is for the moment, and work towards what changes
> >you'd
> >> > like.
> >> > > > > > There's a fdback button there, use it and have all the pk
> >players
> >> > you
> >> > > > know
> >> > > > > > use it as well. Good to hear the comments though.
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > Zalbar
> >> > > > > > 14th Wizard
> >> > > > > > Solusek Ro
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> >> > > > > > From: John Cuyle <johncuyle@...>
> >> > > > > > To: eq_wizards@onelist.com <eq_wizards@onelist.com>
> >> > > > > > Date: 22 avril, 1999 14:10
> >> > > > > > Subject: [eq_wizards] Re: Digest Number 18
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >From: "John Cuyle" <johncuyle@...>
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >----- Original Message -----
> >> > > > > > >From: Ken Lee <kenlee@...>
> >> > > > > > >To: <eq_wizards@onelist.com>
> >> > > > > > >Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 9:24 AM
> >> > > > > > >Subject: [eq_wizards] Re: Digest Number 18
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >> From: "Ken Lee" <kenlee@...>
> >> > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > >> Whoa. Hold on there, Iggie didn't say YOU, he said that
> >there
> >> > are
> >> > > > a
> >> > > > > > >lot
> >> > > > > > >> of +pvp players that are jerks. There are also a ton of -pvp
> >> > players>
> >> > > > that
> >> > > > > > >> are jerks as well. I'll tell you about Elyas the loser>
> >Paladin on
> >> > > > Solusek
> >> > > > > > >Ro
> >> > > > > > >> sometime.
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >He didn't say anyone was a jerk. He said we weren't important
> >> > enough
> >> > > > to
> >> > > > > > fix
> >> > > > > > >+PvP specific problems.
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >Enabling +pvp or -pvp is a choice you make, and because Verant
> >has
> >> > > > > > >> decided to offer you this choice, it is also up to them to
> >> > protect
> >> > > > > > players
> >> > > > > > >> that don't share a +pvp view. They've given you 'free zones'
> >> > where
> >> > > > > > >even -pvp
> >> > > > > > >> players are fair game, they've given you an entire +pvp
> >server. I
> >> > > > don't
> >> > > > > > >see
> >> > > > > > >> what more they can offer?
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >Fix the PvP specific bugs. I don't care about PvP specific
> >zones.
> >> > I
> >> > > > play
> >> > > > > > >my wizard on zek where this specific issue isn't a concern to
> >me
> >> > since
> >> > > > > > there
> >> > > > > > >are no -PvP players to worry about. I'm just saying this
> >continued
> >> > > > > > attitude
> >> > > > > > >toward +PvP is totally unwarranted. What did we do to
> everyone
> >> > else?
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >Are thee bugs, yes that's true, but I think that
> >> > > > > > >> fixing global bugs that affect everyone will be more of a
> >> > priority
> >> > > > than
> >> > > > > > >bugs
> >> > > > > > >> that affect a single class.
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >The bug I am concerned with is a global bug. It affects
> people
> >of
> >> > any>
> >> > > > > > class
> >> > > > > > >on all servers. It just hurts +PvP a lot more. But the bug
> is
> >> > still
> >> > > > > > there.
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > So you have restrictions that I do not have as
> >> > > > > > >> a -pvp wizard. It was your choice, so live with it. Learn to
> >get
> >> > > > around
> >> > > > > > >it,
> >> > > > > > >> and I'm sure that you'll have a much better experience for
> >it.
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >Huh? What are you talking about?
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > >> You also have to remember that it's THEIR world you're
> >in,
> >> > so
> >> > > > you
> >> > > > > > >have
> >> > > > > > >> to conform to them, they don't have to conform to you, even
> >> > though a
> >> > > > lot
> >> > > > > > >of
> >> > > > > > >> player suggestions have been implemented. I'm still waiting
> >for a>
> >> > > > patch
> >> > > > > > >that
> >> > > > > > >> will save the choice of how I view servers. Why would anyone
> >want
> >> > to
> >> > > > view
> >> > > > > > >by
> >> > > > > > >> number of players once you've created and levelled your
> >> > characters is
> >> > > > a
> >> > > > > > >> mystery to me. : )
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >No kidding. That's kinda annoying.
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > >> Try and remember that there's nothing that they've done
> >is to
> >> > be
> >> > > > > > >> intentionally harmful to the -pvp class, but given a choice
> >the
> >> > > > majority
> >> > > > > > >has
> >> > > > > > >> to rule, and that majority is -pvp. Their priorities
> >concerning
> >> > +pvp
> >> > > > will
> >> > > > > > >> always come first.
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >Um, you are wrong. Their priority is -PvP. This should be
> >pretty
> >> > > > obvious
> >> > > > > > >if you have played the game at all. -PvP has no real problems
> >(I
> >> > play
> >> > > > > > >a -PvP ranger on the Rathe). +PvP still has a couple HUGE,
> >game
> >> > > > balance
> >> > > > > > >destroying issues that would be pretty simple to fix. From
> >what I
> >> > read
> >> > > > > > >about the testing on the test server, it looks like they may
> >> > finally
> >> > > > have
> >> > > > > > >addressed the issue as the looting for +PvP is supposed to>
> have
> >> > > > changed.
> >> > > > > > To
> >> > > > > > >give you a brief rundown of the current problem, you are a lvl
> >35
> >> > > > (insert
> >> > > > > > >any class here) player. You accidentally have autoattack on
> or
> >are
> >> > > > playing
> >> > > > > > >song of discord or aoe a critter that is standing near a guard
> >at
> >> > one
> >> > > > of
> >> > > > > > the
> >> > > > > > >kelethin lifts. The guard kills you. ANY person who comes
> >along
> >> > can
> >> > > > loot
> >> > > > > > >you. Even lvl 1 newbies. Goodbye black robe and no way to
> get
> >it
> >> > back
> >> > > > > > from
> >> > > > > > >them (four level limit). Obviously this screws up game
> balance
> >a
> >> > bit.
> >> > > > All
> >> > > > > > >they need to do to fix it is apply the same loot ruels they
> use
> >for
> >> > > > MOBs.
> >> > > > > > >If you didn't kill it, you don't get to loot it.
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >However, non combat spells you should be able to cast on
> >> > > > > > >> others. Bind Affinity, O'Keils radiation, Invisibility,
> great
> >> > spells,
> >> > > > and
> >> > > > > > >> I'm behind you 110% in that you should be able to use them
> on
> >> > others.
> >> > > > I'm
> >> > > > > > >> sure they'll change it in the future, but how long depends
> on
> >> > how>
> >> > > > hard it
> >> > > > > > >is
> >> > > > > > >> to code.
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >I wouldn't think it would be that hard as most players can
> >already
> >> > cast
> >> > > > > > them
> >> > > > > > >on others, just not +PvP for some reason. +PvP spells would
> >work
> >> > > > exactly
> >> > > > > > >as -PvP spells on a -PvP person. There is no difference
> >whatsoever
> >> > in
> >> > > > how
> >> > > > > > >they should behave. if a -PvP can cast it on a -PvP, a +PvP
> >should
> >> > be
> >> > > > able
> >> > > > > > >to. The code is all there, and all works, except they aren't
> >using
> >> > it.
> >> > > > > > The
> >> > > > > > >only sane explanation is they are punishing +PvP for
> something.
> >> > BTW,
> >> > > > if
> >> > > > > > you
> >> > > > > > >are +PvP you can forget about -PvP helping you ever. They
> >can't
> >> > cast
> >> > > > > > >helpful spells on you without becoming +PvP themselves. Of
> >course,
> >> > I
> >> > > > play
> >> > > > > > >on zek, where the only real concern is the looting issue I
> just
> >> > > > mentioned.
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > >> Zalbar
> >> > > > > > >> 14th Wizard
> >> > > > > > >> Solusek Ro
> >> > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > >> -----Original Message-----
> >> > > > > > >> From: John Cuyle <johncuyle@...>
> >> > > > > > >> To: eq_wizards@onelist.com <eq_wizards@onelist.com>
> >> > > > > > >> Date: 22 avril, 1999 12:08
> >> > > > > > >> Subject: [eq_wizards] Re: Digest Number 18
> >> > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > >> >From: "John Cuyle" <johncuyle@...>
> >> > > > > > >> >
> >> > > > > > >> >There you have it, even players say "screw you, +PvP
> people.
> >> > You
> >> > > > aren't
> >> > > > > > >> >worthy of a good game experience.">
> >> > > > > > >> >----- Original Message -----
> >> > > > > > >> >From: Iggie/Alyssandra/Jane Pierson
> ><ldyiggie@...>
> >> > > > > > >> >To: <eq_wizards@onelist.com>
> >> > > > > > >> >Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 4:27 AM
> >> > > > > > >> >Subject: [eq_wizards] Re: Digest Number 18
> >> > > > > > >> >
> >> > > > > > >> >
> >> > > > > > >> >> From: "Iggie/Alyssandra/Jane Pierson"
> >> > <ldyiggie@...>>
> >> > > > > > >> >>
> >> > > > > > >> >> Actually I don't believe it was done to make PVP players
> >> > harder
> >> > > > but to
> >> > > > > > >> >protect
> >> > > > > > >> >> those who choose not to PVP. I can understand why you
> say
> >> > these
> >> > > > > > things
> >> > > > > > >> >> make your lives harder tho. However, I have to say that
> I
> >> > support
> >> > > > > > >Verant
> >> > > > > > >> >on this>
> >> > > > > > >> >> one.. there are just too many jerks out there who give
> PVP
> >a
> >> > bad
> >> > > > name
> >> > > > > > >> with
> >> > > > > > >> >> their antics.
> >> > > > > > >> >>
> >> > > > > > >> >> Iggie
> >> > > > > > >> >>
> >> > > > > > >> >> >> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 12:01:49 -0700
> >> > > > > > >> >> From: "John Cuyle" <johncuyle@...>
> >> > > > > > >> >> Subject: Re: Our class
> >> > > > > > >> >>
> >> > > > > > >> >> Verant has done a variety of thinks to make +PvP players'
> >> > lives
> >> > > > > > harder.
> >> > > > > > >> >> Loot bug springs instantly to mind<<
> >> > > > > > >> >>
> >> > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > >
> >> >
> >>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -
> >> > > > > > >> >> Has ONElist changed your life?
> >> > > > > > >> >> http://www.ONElist.com
> >> > > > > > >> >> Visit our homepage and share with us your experiences at
> >> > ONElist
> >> > > > of
> >> > > > > > the
> >> > > > > > >> >Week!
> >> > > > > > >> >>
> >> > > > > > >> >
> >> > > > > > >> >
> >> > > > > > >>
> >> > > >
> >> >
> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > > > > > >> >Share the wealth!
> >> > > > > > >> >http://www.ONElist.com
> >> > > > > > >> >Tell a friend about ONElist's 130,000 free e-mail
> >communities!
> >> > > > > > >> >
> >> > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > >
> >> >
> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > > > > > >> Have you visited the new ONElist home page lately?
> >> > > > > > >> http://www.ONElist.com
> >> > > > > > >> ONElist: The Leading e-mail list and community service on
> the
> >> > > > Internet!
> >> > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > >
> >> >
> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > > > > > >Are you hogging all the fun?
> >> > > > > > >http://www.ONElist.com
> >> > > > > > >Friends tell friends about ONElist!
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> >
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > > > > > Has ONElist changed your life?
> >> > > > > > http://www.ONElist.com
> >> > > > > > Visit our homepage and share with us your experiences at
> ONElist
> >of
> >> > the
> >> > > > Week!
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > >
> >> >
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------>
> >> > > > > You can now easily share photos and documents with your fellow
> >list
> >> > > > members
> >> > > > > http://www.ONElist.com
> >> > > > > Check out our homepage for details on how to use our new shared
> >files
> >> > > > feature!
> >> > > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > > > Looking for a new hobby? Want to make a new friend?
> >> > > > http://www.ONElist.com
> >> > > > Come join one of the 130,000 e-mail communities at ONElist!
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > > You can now easily share photos and documents with your fellow list
> >> > members
> >> > > http://www.ONElist.com
> >> > > Check out our homepage for details on how to use our new shared files
> >> > feature!
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > Show mom you love her. Check out our great Mother's Day Gifts!
> >> > 14K Gold and gemstone jewelry, leather and cloth wallets and purses,
> >> > gardening, gourmet, kitchen, more! Free Shipping in the US!
> >> > http://www.onelist.com/ad/shoptheglobe5
> >> >
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> Looking for the perfect gift for a friend?
> >> http://www.ONElist.com
> >> Tell them about ONElist's 115,000 free e-mail communities!>
> >>>
> >
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >Share the wealth!
> >http://www.ONElist.com
> >Tell a friend about ONElist's 130,000 free e-mail communities!
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> You can now easily share photos and documents with your fellow list members
> http://www.ONElist.com
> Check out our homepage for details on how to use our new shared files feature!
>