Hmm, if you feel so strongly about -PvP you should play on Zek. There are
no -PvP there.
----- Original Message -----
From: McCartney, Michael R <Michael.McCartney2@...>
To: <eq_wizards@onelist.com>
Sent: Friday, April 23, 1999 7:26 AM
Subject: [eq_wizards] Re: Digest Number 18
> From: "McCartney, Michael R" <Michael.McCartney2@...>
>
> hahaha
>
> I wont let a -PvP into a party that I'm in... and I wouldn't let any cast
on me anyway.
>
> As far as I am concerned, they are outcasts. I want nothing to do with
them. They simply aren't there. hehe
>
> Drev
>
> > ----------
> > From: Ken Lee[SMTP:kenlee@...]
> > Reply To: eq_wizards@onelist.com
> > Sent: Friday, April 23, 1999 6:14 AM
> > To: eq_wizards@onelist.com
> > Subject: [eq_wizards] Re: Digest Number 18
> >
> > From: "Ken Lee" <kenlee@...>
> >
> > My mother used to tell me the same thing about asparagus. I still won't
eat
> > it. : )
> >
> >
> >
> > Zalbar
> > 14th Wizard
> > Solusek Ro
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: John Cuyle <johncuyle@...>
> > To: eq_wizards@onelist.com <eq_wizards@onelist.com>
> > Date: 22 avril, 1999 20:49
> > Subject: [eq_wizards] Re: Digest Number 18
> >
> >
> > >From: "John Cuyle" <johncuyle@...>
> > >
> > >Heh, wait until the only one around is PvP. Might change your mind
then.
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: McCartney, Michael R <Michael.McCartney2@...>
> > >To: <eq_wizards@onelist.com>
> > >Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 2:06 PM
> > >Subject: [eq_wizards] Re: Digest Number 18
> > >
> > >
> > >> From: "McCartney, Michael R" <Michael.McCartney2@...>
> > >>
> > >> Na.. -PvPs can play fine by themselves. If they dont know how, then
> > >thats not a disadvantage due to +PvPs not helping them out, its due to
a
> > >lack of knowledge. -PvPs dont need ANY help from +PvP... because
any -PvP
> > >can do the same thing... which makes your argument pretty much
meaningless.
> > >>
> > >> > ----------
> > >> > From: John Cuyle[SMTP:johncuyle@...]
> > >> > Reply To: eq_wizards@onelist.com
> > >> > Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 2:11 PM
> > >> > To: eq_wizards@onelist.com
> > >> > Subject: [eq_wizards] Re: Digest Number 18
> > >> >
> > >> > From: "John Cuyle" <johncuyle@...>
> > >> >
> > >> > No, because there are a lot of people who (For reasons which I
don't
> > >> > understand) play +PvP on a -PvP server. Really it hurts the -PvP
the
> > >most.
> > >> > They are the ones that miss out on timely buffs, heals, and binds.
The
> > >> > types do mix, there is no way around it except to play on Zek,
(which
> > is
> > >> > where I play, but is not for everyone) and there should be some
sort of
> > >fix
> > >> > for this. I guess I'm just not so narrow minded to think that bugs
> > >should
> > >> > only be fixed when they apply to me.
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > ----- Original Message -----
> > >> > From: McCartney, Michael R <Michael.McCartney2@...>
> > >> > To: <eq_wizards@onelist.com>
> > >> > Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 1:54 PM
> > >> > Subject: [eq_wizards] Re: Digest Number 18
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > > From: "McCartney, Michael R" <Michael.McCartney2@...>
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Kind've like how the whole argument of letting PKs cast
non-offensive
> > >> > spells onto nonPKs is meaninglessly mixing the two types of
playing?
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Either you're playing the game PK, or you're not. Its simple.
Deal
> > >with
> > >> > it.
> > >> > > > ----------
> > >> > > > From: John Cuyle[SMTP:johncuyle@...]
> > >> > > > Reply To: eq_wizards@onelist.com
> > >> > > > Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 1:52 PM
> > >> > > > To: eq_wizards@onelist.com
> > >> > > > Subject: [eq_wizards] Re: Digest Number 18
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > From: "John Cuyle" <johncuyle@...>
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > Of course a non PK could cast on someone while they are dueling
as
> > >well,
> > >> > > > making your argument pretty much meaningless.
> > >> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >> > > > From: McCartney, Michael R <Michael.McCartney2@...>
> > >> > > > To: <eq_wizards@onelist.com>
> > >> > > > Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 12:05 PM
> > >> > > > Subject: [eq_wizards] Re: Digest Number 18
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > > From: "McCartney, Michael R"
<Michael.McCartney2@...>
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > I agree. PK's should not be able to cast ANY spells on
nonPKs.
> > >The
> > >> > > > reason is.. if you've got a friend who is a PK.. and you are>
> > >dueling a
> > >> > > > non-PK person... the PK person could heal you.. because he
isn't
> > >> > afraid of
> > >> > > > turning PK.. he already is one. Yet the other person would
get no
> > >> > heals.
> > >> > > > Not fair. The PK switch is there to seperate the different
> > >societies.
> > >> > PK's
> > >> > > > have their server that they can play on. There is no reason to
try
> > >to
> > >> > blend
> > >> > > > with nonPK's..
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > Drev
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > > ----------
> > >> > > > > > From: Ken Lee[SMTP:kenlee@...]
> > >> > > > > > Reply To: eq_wizards@onelist.com
> > >> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 11:28 AM
> > >> > > > > > To: eq_wizards@onelist.com
> > >> > > > > > Subject: [eq_wizards] Re: Digest Number 18
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > From: "Ken Lee" <kenlee@...>
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > That's another annoying problem. I was running with a
monk
> > >that
> > >> > > > became
> > >> > > > > > pk (I'll use pk and nonpk because it's less confusing to
me)
> > and
> > >the
> > >> > > > cleric
> > >> > > > > > in the party wouldn't help him at all. He even said, don't
heal
> > >me,
> > >> > > > don't
> > >> > > > > > buff me or you'll become pk. Very cool of him.
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > As to the looting issue, that's absurd. (In your favor)
NO
> > >ONE
> > >> > > > should be
> > >> > > > > > able to loot your body unless they personally killed you.
> > >Another
> > >> > point
> > >> > > > for
> > >> > > > > > you, and that's something that I think they need to
address. I
> > >> > didn't
> > >> > > > know
> > >> > > > > > that just anyone could pick stuff off your body. As a
matter of
> > >> > fact,
> > >> > > > I'd
> > >> > > > > > make looting a pk body that you didn't kill turn you pk.
That'd
> > >be>
> > >> > more
> > >> > > > > > reasonable I think. Believe me, no one's picking on you,
maybe
> > >> > taking
> > >> > > > the
> > >> > > > > > easy way out, but not singling out pk players.
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > As to coding the changes. It's more than likely that it's
> > easier
> > >to
> > >> > make
> > >> > > > > > them not be able to cast anything on you instead of being
> > >selective.
> > >> > As
> > >> > > > a
> > >> > > > > > matter of fact I KNOW it'd be easier that way. It's like
having
> > >1
> > >> > switch
> > >> > > > to
> > >> > > > > > turn on all the lights in your house, or running around and
> > >turning
> > >> > some
> > >> > > > on
> > >> > > > > > and some off.
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > All in all though, I think that for the moment, it'd be
better
> > >to
> > >> > just
> > >> > > > enjoy
> > >> > > > > > the game as is for the moment, and work towards what
changes
> > >you'd
> > >> > like.
> > >> > > > > > There's a fdback button there, use it and have all the pk
> > >players
> > >> > you
> > >> > > > know
> > >> > > > > > use it as well. Good to hear the comments though.
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > Zalbar
> > >> > > > > > 14th Wizard
> > >> > > > > > Solusek Ro
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > >> > > > > > From: John Cuyle <johncuyle@...>
> > >> > > > > > To: eq_wizards@onelist.com <eq_wizards@onelist.com>
> > >> > > > > > Date: 22 avril, 1999 14:10
> > >> > > > > > Subject: [eq_wizards] Re: Digest Number 18
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > >From: "John Cuyle" <johncuyle@...>
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > >----- Original Message -----
> > >> > > > > > >From: Ken Lee <kenlee@...>
> > >> > > > > > >To: <eq_wizards@onelist.com>
> > >> > > > > > >Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 9:24 AM
> > >> > > > > > >Subject: [eq_wizards] Re: Digest Number 18
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > >> From: "Ken Lee" <kenlee@...>
> > >> > > > > > >>
> > >> > > > > > >> Whoa. Hold on there, Iggie didn't say YOU, he said
that
> > >there
> > >> > are
> > >> > > > a
> > >> > > > > > >lot
> > >> > > > > > >> of +pvp players that are jerks. There are also a ton
of -pvp
> > >> > players>
> > >> > > > that
> > >> > > > > > >> are jerks as well. I'll tell you about Elyas the loser>
> > >Paladin on
> > >> > > > Solusek
> > >> > > > > > >Ro
> > >> > > > > > >> sometime.
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > >He didn't say anyone was a jerk. He said we weren't
important
> > >> > enough
> > >> > > > to
> > >> > > > > > fix
> > >> > > > > > >+PvP specific problems.
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > >Enabling +pvp or -pvp is a choice you make, and because
Verant
> > >has
> > >> > > > > > >> decided to offer you this choice, it is also up to them
to
> > >> > protect
> > >> > > > > > players
> > >> > > > > > >> that don't share a +pvp view. They've given you 'free
zones'
> > >> > where
> > >> > > > > > >even -pvp
> > >> > > > > > >> players are fair game, they've given you an entire +pvp
> > >server. I
> > >> > > > don't
> > >> > > > > > >see
> > >> > > > > > >> what more they can offer?
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > >Fix the PvP specific bugs. I don't care about PvP
specific
> > >zones.
> > >> > I
> > >> > > > play
> > >> > > > > > >my wizard on zek where this specific issue isn't a concern
to
> > >me
> > >> > since
> > >> > > > > > there
> > >> > > > > > >are no -PvP players to worry about. I'm just saying this
> > >continued
> > >> > > > > > attitude
> > >> > > > > > >toward +PvP is totally unwarranted. What did we do to
> > everyone
> > >> > else?
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > >Are thee bugs, yes that's true, but I think that
> > >> > > > > > >> fixing global bugs that affect everyone will be more of
a
> > >> > priority
> > >> > > > than
> > >> > > > > > >bugs
> > >> > > > > > >> that affect a single class.
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > >The bug I am concerned with is a global bug. It affects
> > people
> > >of
> > >> > any>
> > >> > > > > > class
> > >> > > > > > >on all servers. It just hurts +PvP a lot more. But the
bug
> > is
> > >> > still
> > >> > > > > > there.
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > So you have restrictions that I do not have as
> > >> > > > > > >> a -pvp wizard. It was your choice, so live with it.
Learn to
> > >get
> > >> > > > around
> > >> > > > > > >it,
> > >> > > > > > >> and I'm sure that you'll have a much better experience
for
> > >it.
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > >Huh? What are you talking about?
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > >>
> > >> > > > > > >> You also have to remember that it's THEIR world
you're
> > >in,
> > >> > so
> > >> > > > you
> > >> > > > > > >have
> > >> > > > > > >> to conform to them, they don't have to conform to you,
even
> > >> > though a
> > >> > > > lot
> > >> > > > > > >of
> > >> > > > > > >> player suggestions have been implemented. I'm still
waiting
> > >for a>
> > >> > > > patch
> > >> > > > > > >that
> > >> > > > > > >> will save the choice of how I view servers. Why would
anyone
> > >want
> > >> > to
> > >> > > > view
> > >> > > > > > >by
> > >> > > > > > >> number of players once you've created and levelled your
> > >> > characters is
> > >> > > > a
> > >> > > > > > >> mystery to me. : )
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > >No kidding. That's kinda annoying.
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > >>
> > >> > > > > > >> Try and remember that there's nothing that they've
done
> > >is to
> > >> > be
> > >> > > > > > >> intentionally harmful to the -pvp class, but given a
choice
> > >the
> > >> > > > majority
> > >> > > > > > >has
> > >> > > > > > >> to rule, and that majority is -pvp. Their priorities
> > >concerning
> > >> > +pvp
> > >> > > > will
> > >> > > > > > >> always come first.
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > >Um, you are wrong. Their priority is -PvP. This should
be
> > >pretty
> > >> > > > obvious
> > >> > > > > > >if you have played the game at all. -PvP has no real
problems
> > >(I
> > >> > play
> > >> > > > > > >a -PvP ranger on the Rathe). +PvP still has a couple
HUGE,
> > >game
> > >> > > > balance
> > >> > > > > > >destroying issues that would be pretty simple to fix.
From
> > >what I
> > >> > read
> > >> > > > > > >about the testing on the test server, it looks like they
may
> > >> > finally
> > >> > > > have
> > >> > > > > > >addressed the issue as the looting for +PvP is supposed
to>
> > have
> > >> > > > changed.
> > >> > > > > > To
> > >> > > > > > >give you a brief rundown of the current problem, you are a
lvl
> > >35
> > >> > > > (insert
> > >> > > > > > >any class here) player. You accidentally have autoattack
on
> > or
> > >are
> > >> > > > playing
> > >> > > > > > >song of discord or aoe a critter that is standing near a
guard
> > >at
> > >> > one
> > >> > > > of
> > >> > > > > > the
> > >> > > > > > >kelethin lifts. The guard kills you. ANY person who
comes
> > >along
> > >> > can
> > >> > > > loot
> > >> > > > > > >you. Even lvl 1 newbies. Goodbye black robe and no way
to
> > get
> > >it
> > >> > back
> > >> > > > > > from
> > >> > > > > > >them (four level limit). Obviously this screws up game
> > balance
> > >a
> > >> > bit.
> > >> > > > All
> > >> > > > > > >they need to do to fix it is apply the same loot ruels
they
> > use
> > >for
> > >> > > > MOBs.
> > >> > > > > > >If you didn't kill it, you don't get to loot it.
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > >However, non combat spells you should be able to cast on
> > >> > > > > > >> others. Bind Affinity, O'Keils radiation, Invisibility,
> > great
> > >> > spells,
> > >> > > > and
> > >> > > > > > >> I'm behind you 110% in that you should be able to use
them
> > on
> > >> > others.
> > >> > > > I'm
> > >> > > > > > >> sure they'll change it in the future, but how long
depends
> > on
> > >> > how>
> > >> > > > hard it
> > >> > > > > > >is
> > >> > > > > > >> to code.
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > >I wouldn't think it would be that hard as most players can
> > >already
> > >> > cast
> > >> > > > > > them
> > >> > > > > > >on others, just not +PvP for some reason. +PvP spells
would
> > >work
> > >> > > > exactly
> > >> > > > > > >as -PvP spells on a -PvP person. There is no difference
> > >whatsoever
> > >> > in
> > >> > > > how
> > >> > > > > > >they should behave. if a -PvP can cast it on a -PvP, a
+PvP
> > >should
> > >> > be
> > >> > > > able
> > >> > > > > > >to. The code is all there, and all works, except they
aren't
> > >using
> > >> > it.
> > >> > > > > > The
> > >> > > > > > >only sane explanation is they are punishing +PvP for
> > something.
> > >> > BTW,
> > >> > > > if
> > >> > > > > > you
> > >> > > > > > >are +PvP you can forget about -PvP helping you ever. They
> > >can't
> > >> > cast
> > >> > > > > > >helpful spells on you without becoming +PvP themselves.
Of
> > >course,
> > >> > I
> > >> > > > play
> > >> > > > > > >on zek, where the only real concern is the looting issue I
> > just
> > >> > > > mentioned.
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > >>
> > >> > > > > > >> Zalbar
> > >> > > > > > >> 14th Wizard
> > >> > > > > > >> Solusek Ro
> > >> > > > > > >>
> > >> > > > > > >>
> > >> > > > > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> > > > > > >> From: John Cuyle <johncuyle@...>
> > >> > > > > > >> To: eq_wizards@onelist.com <eq_wizards@onelist.com>
> > >> > > > > > >> Date: 22 avril, 1999 12:08
> > >> > > > > > >> Subject: [eq_wizards] Re: Digest Number 18
> > >> > > > > > >>
> > >> > > > > > >>
> > >> > > > > > >> >From: "John Cuyle" <johncuyle@...>
> > >> > > > > > >> >
> > >> > > > > > >> >There you have it, even players say "screw you, +PvP
> > people.
> > >> > You
> > >> > > > aren't
> > >> > > > > > >> >worthy of a good game experience.">
> > >> > > > > > >> >----- Original Message -----
> > >> > > > > > >> >From: Iggie/Alyssandra/Jane Pierson
> > ><ldyiggie@...>
> > >> > > > > > >> >To: <eq_wizards@onelist.com>
> > >> > > > > > >> >Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 4:27 AM
> > >> > > > > > >> >Subject: [eq_wizards] Re: Digest Number 18
> > >> > > > > > >> >
> > >> > > > > > >> >
> > >> > > > > > >> >> From: "Iggie/Alyssandra/Jane Pierson"
> > >> > <ldyiggie@...>>
> > >> > > > > > >> >>
> > >> > > > > > >> >> Actually I don't believe it was done to make PVP
players
> > >> > harder
> > >> > > > but to
> > >> > > > > > >> >protect
> > >> > > > > > >> >> those who choose not to PVP. I can understand why
you
> > say
> > >> > these
> > >> > > > > > things
> > >> > > > > > >> >> make your lives harder tho. However, I have to say
that
> > I
> > >> > support
> > >> > > > > > >Verant
> > >> > > > > > >> >on this>
> > >> > > > > > >> >> one.. there are just too many jerks out there who
give
> > PVP
> > >a
> > >> > bad
> > >> > > > name
> > >> > > > > > >> with
> > >> > > > > > >> >> their antics.
> > >> > > > > > >> >>
> > >> > > > > > >> >> Iggie
> > >> > > > > > >> >>
> > >> > > > > > >> >> >> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 12:01:49 -0700
> > >> > > > > > >> >> From: "John Cuyle" <johncuyle@...>
> > >> > > > > > >> >> Subject: Re: Our class
> > >> > > > > > >> >>
> > >> > > > > > >> >> Verant has done a variety of thinks to make +PvP
players'
> > >> > lives
> > >> > > > > > harder.
> > >> > > > > > >> >> Loot bug springs instantly to mind<<
> > >> > > > > > >> >>
> > >> > > > > > >>
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> >
> >
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> > >files
> > >> > > > feature!
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > >
> >
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> > > > Looking for a new hobby? Want to make a new friend?
> > >> > > > http://www.ONElist.com
> > >> > > > Come join one of the 130,000 e-mail communities at ONElist!
> > >> > > >
> > >> > >
> > >> >
> >
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> > > You can now easily share photos and documents with your fellow
list
> > >> > members
> > >> > > http://www.ONElist.com
> > >> > > Check out our homepage for details on how to use our new shared
files
> > >> > feature!
> > >> > >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >>
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > >> >
> > >>
> >
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> Looking for the perfect gift for a friend?
> > >> http://www.ONElist.com
> > >> Tell them about ONElist's 115,000 free e-mail communities!>
> > >>>
> > >
> > >
> >
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >Share the wealth!
> > >http://www.ONElist.com
> > >Tell a friend about ONElist's 130,000 free e-mail communities!
> > >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > You can now easily share photos and documents with your fellow list
members
> > http://www.ONElist.com
> > Check out our homepage for details on how to use our new shared files
feature!
> >
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Did you know that ONElist hosts some of the largest lists on the Internet?
> http://www.ONElist.com
> Our scaleable system is the most reliable free e-mail service on the
Internet!
>