Nope. I wont accept help from a +PvP. rather die. =)~
I dont think they have any business trying to blend with the -PvPs. ...also... so far.. in my clan... I've never been logged on for more than half an hour, and never had to play solo. I have solo'd... but always have to opportunity to group.
> ----------
> From: John Cuyle[SMTP:johncuyle@...]
> Reply To: eq_wizards@onelist.com
> Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 5:55 PM
> To: eq_wizards@onelist.com
> Subject: [eq_wizards] Re: Digest Number 18
>
> From: "John Cuyle" <johncuyle@...>
>
> Heh, wait until the only one around is PvP. Might change your mind then.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: McCartney, Michael R <Michael.McCartney2@...>
> To: <eq_wizards@onelist.com>
> Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 2:06 PM
> Subject: [eq_wizards] Re: Digest Number 18
>
>
> > From: "McCartney, Michael R" <Michael.McCartney2@...>
> >
> > Na.. -PvPs can play fine by themselves. If they dont know how, then
> thats not a disadvantage due to +PvPs not helping them out, its due to a
> lack of knowledge. -PvPs dont need ANY help from +PvP... because any -PvP
> can do the same thing... which makes your argument pretty much meaningless.
> >
> > > ----------
> > > From: John Cuyle[SMTP:johncuyle@...]
> > > Reply To: eq_wizards@onelist.com
> > > Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 2:11 PM
> > > To: eq_wizards@onelist.com
> > > Subject: [eq_wizards] Re: Digest Number 18
> > >
> > > From: "John Cuyle" <johncuyle@...>
> > >
> > > No, because there are a lot of people who (For reasons which I don't
> > > understand) play +PvP on a -PvP server. Really it hurts the -PvP the
> most.
> > > They are the ones that miss out on timely buffs, heals, and binds. The
> > > types do mix, there is no way around it except to play on Zek, (which is
> > > where I play, but is not for everyone) and there should be some sort of
> fix
> > > for this. I guess I'm just not so narrow minded to think that bugs
> should
> > > only be fixed when they apply to me.
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: McCartney, Michael R <Michael.McCartney2@...>
> > > To: <eq_wizards@onelist.com>
> > > Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 1:54 PM
> > > Subject: [eq_wizards] Re: Digest Number 18
> > >
> > >
> > > > From: "McCartney, Michael R" <Michael.McCartney2@...>
> > > >
> > > > Kind've like how the whole argument of letting PKs cast non-offensive
> > > spells onto nonPKs is meaninglessly mixing the two types of playing?
> > > >
> > > > Either you're playing the game PK, or you're not. Its simple. Deal
> with
> > > it.
> > > > > ----------
> > > > > From: John Cuyle[SMTP:johncuyle@...]
> > > > > Reply To: eq_wizards@onelist.com
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 1:52 PM
> > > > > To: eq_wizards@onelist.com
> > > > > Subject: [eq_wizards] Re: Digest Number 18
> > > > >
> > > > > From: "John Cuyle" <johncuyle@...>
> > > > >
> > > > > Of course a non PK could cast on someone while they are dueling as
> well,
> > > > > making your argument pretty much meaningless.
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: McCartney, Michael R <Michael.McCartney2@...>
> > > > > To: <eq_wizards@onelist.com>
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 12:05 PM
> > > > > Subject: [eq_wizards] Re: Digest Number 18
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > From: "McCartney, Michael R" <Michael.McCartney2@...>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I agree. PK's should not be able to cast ANY spells on nonPKs.
> The
> > > > > reason is.. if you've got a friend who is a PK.. and you are
> dueling a
> > > > > non-PK person... the PK person could heal you.. because he isn't
> > > afraid of
> > > > > turning PK.. he already is one. Yet the other person would get no
> > > heals.
> > > > > Not fair. The PK switch is there to seperate the different
> societies.>
> > > PK's
> > > > > have their server that they can play on. There is no reason to try
> to
> > > blend
> > > > > with nonPK's..
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Drev
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----------
> > > > > > > From: Ken Lee[SMTP:kenlee@...]
> > > > > > > Reply To: eq_wizards@onelist.com
> > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 11:28 AM
> > > > > > > To: eq_wizards@onelist.com
> > > > > > > Subject: [eq_wizards] Re: Digest Number 18
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > From: "Ken Lee" <kenlee@...>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > That's another annoying problem. I was running with a monk
> that
> > > > > became
> > > > > > > pk (I'll use pk and nonpk because it's less confusing to me) and
> the
> > > > > cleric
> > > > > > > in the party wouldn't help him at all. He even said, don't heal
> me,
> > > > > don't
> > > > > > > buff me or you'll become pk. Very cool of him.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > As to the looting issue, that's absurd. (In your favor) NO
> ONE
> > > > > should be
> > > > > > > able to loot your body unless they personally killed you.
> Another
> > > point
> > > > > for
> > > > > > > you, and that's something that I think they need to address. I
> > > didn't
> > > > > know
> > > > > > > that just anyone could pick stuff off your body. As a matter of
> > > fact,
> > > > > I'd
> > > > > > > make looting a pk body that you didn't kill turn you pk. That'd
> be>
> > > more
> > > > > > > reasonable I think. Believe me, no one's picking on you, maybe
> > > taking
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > easy way out, but not singling out pk players.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > As to coding the changes. It's more than likely that it's easier
> to
> > > make
> > > > > > > them not be able to cast anything on you instead of being
> selective.
> > > As
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > matter of fact I KNOW it'd be easier that way. It's like having
> 1
> > > switch
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > turn on all the lights in your house, or running around and
> turning
> > > some
> > > > > on
> > > > > > > and some off.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > All in all though, I think that for the moment, it'd be better
> to
> > > just
> > > > > enjoy
> > > > > > > the game as is for the moment, and work towards what changes
> you'd
> > > like.
> > > > > > > There's a fdback button there, use it and have all the pk
> players
> > > you
> > > > > know
> > > > > > > use it as well. Good to hear the comments though.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Zalbar
> > > > > > > 14th Wizard
> > > > > > > Solusek Ro
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: John Cuyle <johncuyle@...>
> > > > > > > To: eq_wizards@onelist.com <eq_wizards@onelist.com>
> > > > > > > Date: 22 avril, 1999 14:10
> > > > > > > Subject: [eq_wizards] Re: Digest Number 18
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >From: "John Cuyle" <johncuyle@...>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > >From: Ken Lee <kenlee@...>
> > > > > > > >To: <eq_wizards@onelist.com>
> > > > > > > >Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 9:24 AM
> > > > > > > >Subject: [eq_wizards] Re: Digest Number 18
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> From: "Ken Lee" <kenlee@...>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> Whoa. Hold on there, Iggie didn't say YOU, he said that
> there
> > > are
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > >lot
> > > > > > > >> of +pvp players that are jerks. There are also a ton of -pvp
> > > players>
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > >> are jerks as well. I'll tell you about Elyas the loser
> Paladin on
> > > > > Solusek
> > > > > > > >Ro
> > > > > > > >> sometime.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >He didn't say anyone was a jerk. He said we weren't important
> > > enough
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > fix
> > > > > > > >+PvP specific problems.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Enabling +pvp or -pvp is a choice you make, and because Verant
> has
> > > > > > > >> decided to offer you this choice, it is also up to them to>
> > > protect
> > > > > > > players
> > > > > > > >> that don't share a +pvp view. They've given you 'free zones'
> > > where
> > > > > > > >even -pvp
> > > > > > > >> players are fair game, they've given you an entire +pvp
> server. I
> > > > > don't
> > > > > > > >see
> > > > > > > >> what more they can offer?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Fix the PvP specific bugs. I don't care about PvP specific
> zones.
> > > I
> > > > > play
> > > > > > > >my wizard on zek where this specific issue isn't a concern to
> me
> > > since
> > > > > > > there
> > > > > > > >are no -PvP players to worry about. I'm just saying this
> continued
> > > > > > > attitude
> > > > > > > >toward +PvP is totally unwarranted. What did we do to everyone
> > > else?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Are thee bugs, yes that's true, but I think that
> > > > > > > >> fixing global bugs that affect everyone will be more of a
> > > priority
> > > > > than
> > > > > > > >bugs
> > > > > > > >> that affect a single class.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >The bug I am concerned with is a global bug. It affects people
> of
> > > any>
> > > > > > > class
> > > > > > > >on all servers. It just hurts +PvP a lot more. But the bug is
> > > still
> > > > > > > there.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So you have restrictions that I do not have as
> > > > > > > >> a -pvp wizard. It was your choice, so live with it. Learn to
> get
> > > > > around
> > > > > > > >it,
> > > > > > > >> and I'm sure that you'll have a much better experience for
> it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Huh? What are you talking about?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> You also have to remember that it's THEIR world you're
> in,
> > > so
> > > > > you
> > > > > > > >have
> > > > > > > >> to conform to them, they don't have to conform to you, even
> > > though a
> > > > > lot
> > > > > > > >of
> > > > > > > >> player suggestions have been implemented. I'm still waiting
> for a>
> > > > > patch
> > > > > > > >that
> > > > > > > >> will save the choice of how I view servers. Why would anyone
> want
> > > to
> > > > > view
> > > > > > > >by
> > > > > > > >> number of players once you've created and levelled your
> > > characters is
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > >> mystery to me. : )
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >No kidding. That's kinda annoying.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> Try and remember that there's nothing that they've done
> is to
> > > be
> > > > > > > >> intentionally harmful to the -pvp class, but given a choice
> the
> > > > > majority
> > > > > > > >has
> > > > > > > >> to rule, and that majority is -pvp. Their priorities
> concerning
> > > +pvp
> > > > > will
> > > > > > > >> always come first.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Um, you are wrong. Their priority is -PvP. This should be
> pretty
> > > > > obvious
> > > > > > > >if you have played the game at all. -PvP has no real problems
> (I
> > > play
> > > > > > > >a -PvP ranger on the Rathe). +PvP still has a couple HUGE,
> game
> > > > > balance
> > > > > > > >destroying issues that would be pretty simple to fix. From
> what I
> > > read
> > > > > > > >about the testing on the test server, it looks like they may
> > > finally
> > > > > have
> > > > > > > >addressed the issue as the looting for +PvP is supposed to have
> > > > > changed.
> > > > > > > To
> > > > > > > >give you a brief rundown of the current problem, you are a lvl
> 35
> > > > > (insert
> > > > > > > >any class here) player. You accidentally have autoattack on or
> are
> > > > > playing
> > > > > > > >song of discord or aoe a critter that is standing near a guard
> at
> > > one
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > >kelethin lifts. The guard kills you. ANY person who comes
> along
> > > can
> > > > > loot
> > > > > > > >you. Even lvl 1 newbies. Goodbye black robe and no way to get
> it
> > > back
> > > > > > > from>
> > > > > > > >them (four level limit). Obviously this screws up game balance
> a
> > > bit.
> > > > > All
> > > > > > > >they need to do to fix it is apply the same loot ruels they use
> for
> > > > > MOBs.
> > > > > > > >If you didn't kill it, you don't get to loot it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >However, non combat spells you should be able to cast on
> > > > > > > >> others. Bind Affinity, O'Keils radiation, Invisibility, great
> > > spells,
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > >> I'm behind you 110% in that you should be able to use them on
> > > others.
> > > > > I'm
> > > > > > > >> sure they'll change it in the future, but how long depends on
> > > how>
> > > > > hard it
> > > > > > > >is
> > > > > > > >> to code.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >I wouldn't think it would be that hard as most players can
> already
> > > cast
> > > > > > > them
> > > > > > > >on others, just not +PvP for some reason. +PvP spells would
> work
> > > > > exactly
> > > > > > > >as -PvP spells on a -PvP person. There is no difference
> whatsoever
> > > in
> > > > > how
> > > > > > > >they should behave. if a -PvP can cast it on a -PvP, a +PvP
> should
> > > be
> > > > > able
> > > > > > > >to. The code is all there, and all works, except they aren't
> using
> > > it.
> > > > > > > The
> > > > > > > >only sane explanation is they are punishing +PvP for something.
> > > BTW,
> > > > > if
> > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > >are +PvP you can forget about -PvP helping you ever. They
> can't
> > > cast
> > > > > > > >helpful spells on you without becoming +PvP themselves. Of
> course,
> > > I
> > > > > play
> > > > > > > >on zek, where the only real concern is the looting issue I just
> > > > > mentioned.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> Zalbar
> > > > > > > >> 14th Wizard
> > > > > > > >> Solusek Ro
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > >> From: John Cuyle <johncuyle@...>
> > > > > > > >> To: eq_wizards@onelist.com <eq_wizards@onelist.com>
> > > > > > > >> Date: 22 avril, 1999 12:08
> > > > > > > >> Subject: [eq_wizards] Re: Digest Number 18
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> >From: "John Cuyle" <johncuyle@...>
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >> >There you have it, even players say "screw you, +PvP people.
> > > You
> > > > > aren't
> > > > > > > >> >worthy of a good game experience.">
> > > > > > > >> >----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > >> >From: Iggie/Alyssandra/Jane Pierson
> <ldyiggie@...>
> > > > > > > >> >To: <eq_wizards@onelist.com>
> > > > > > > >> >Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 4:27 AM
> > > > > > > >> >Subject: [eq_wizards] Re: Digest Number 18
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >> >> From: "Iggie/Alyssandra/Jane Pierson"
> > > <ldyiggie@...>>
> > > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > > >> >> Actually I don't believe it was done to make PVP players
> > > harder
> > > > > but to
> > > > > > > >> >protect
> > > > > > > >> >> those who choose not to PVP. I can understand why you say
> > > these
> > > > > > > things
> > > > > > > >> >> make your lives harder tho. However, I have to say that I
> > > support
> > > > > > > >Verant
> > > > > > > >> >on this
> > > > > > > >> >> one.. there are just too many jerks out there who give PVP
> a
> > > bad
> > > > > name
> > > > > > > >> with
> > > > > > > >> >> their antics.
> > > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > > >> >> Iggie
> > > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > > >> >> >> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 12:01:49 -0700
> > > > > > > >> >> From: "John Cuyle" <johncuyle@...>
> > > > > > > >> >> Subject: Re: Our class
> > > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > > >> >> Verant has done a variety of thinks to make +PvP players'
> > > lives
> > > > > > > harder.
> > > > > > > >> >> Loot bug springs instantly to mind<<
> > > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
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