My mother used to tell me the same thing about asparagus. I still won't eat
it. : )
Zalbar
14th Wizard
Solusek Ro
-----Original Message-----
From: John Cuyle <
johncuyle@...>
To:
eq_wizards@onelist.com <
eq_wizards@onelist.com>
Date: 22 avril, 1999 20:49
Subject: [eq_wizards] Re: Digest Number 18
>From: "John Cuyle" <johncuyle@...>
>
>Heh, wait until the only one around is PvP. Might change your mind then.
>----- Original Message -----
>From: McCartney, Michael R <Michael.McCartney2@...>
>To: <eq_wizards@onelist.com>
>Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 2:06 PM
>Subject: [eq_wizards] Re: Digest Number 18
>
>
>> From: "McCartney, Michael R" <Michael.McCartney2@...>
>>
>> Na.. -PvPs can play fine by themselves. If they dont know how, then
>thats not a disadvantage due to +PvPs not helping them out, its due to a
>lack of knowledge. -PvPs dont need ANY help from +PvP... because any -PvP
>can do the same thing... which makes your argument pretty much meaningless.
>>
>> > ----------
>> > From: John Cuyle[SMTP:johncuyle@...]
>> > Reply To: eq_wizards@onelist.com
>> > Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 2:11 PM
>> > To: eq_wizards@onelist.com
>> > Subject: [eq_wizards] Re: Digest Number 18
>> >
>> > From: "John Cuyle" <johncuyle@...>
>> >
>> > No, because there are a lot of people who (For reasons which I don't
>> > understand) play +PvP on a -PvP server. Really it hurts the -PvP the
>most.
>> > They are the ones that miss out on timely buffs, heals, and binds. The
>> > types do mix, there is no way around it except to play on Zek, (which
is
>> > where I play, but is not for everyone) and there should be some sort of
>fix
>> > for this. I guess I'm just not so narrow minded to think that bugs
>should
>> > only be fixed when they apply to me.
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: McCartney, Michael R <Michael.McCartney2@...>
>> > To: <eq_wizards@onelist.com>
>> > Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 1:54 PM
>> > Subject: [eq_wizards] Re: Digest Number 18
>> >
>> >
>> > > From: "McCartney, Michael R" <Michael.McCartney2@...>
>> > >
>> > > Kind've like how the whole argument of letting PKs cast non-offensive
>> > spells onto nonPKs is meaninglessly mixing the two types of playing?
>> > >
>> > > Either you're playing the game PK, or you're not. Its simple. Deal
>with
>> > it.
>> > > > ----------
>> > > > From: John Cuyle[SMTP:johncuyle@...]
>> > > > Reply To: eq_wizards@onelist.com
>> > > > Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 1:52 PM
>> > > > To: eq_wizards@onelist.com
>> > > > Subject: [eq_wizards] Re: Digest Number 18
>> > > >
>> > > > From: "John Cuyle" <johncuyle@...>
>> > > >
>> > > > Of course a non PK could cast on someone while they are dueling as
>well,
>> > > > making your argument pretty much meaningless.
>> > > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > > From: McCartney, Michael R <Michael.McCartney2@...>
>> > > > To: <eq_wizards@onelist.com>
>> > > > Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 12:05 PM
>> > > > Subject: [eq_wizards] Re: Digest Number 18
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > > From: "McCartney, Michael R" <Michael.McCartney2@...>
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I agree. PK's should not be able to cast ANY spells on nonPKs.
>The
>> > > > reason is.. if you've got a friend who is a PK.. and you are
>dueling a
>> > > > non-PK person... the PK person could heal you.. because he isn't
>> > afraid of
>> > > > turning PK.. he already is one. Yet the other person would get no
>> > heals.
>> > > > Not fair. The PK switch is there to seperate the different
>societies.
>> > PK's
>> > > > have their server that they can play on. There is no reason to try
>to
>> > blend
>> > > > with nonPK's..
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Drev
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > ----------
>> > > > > > From: Ken Lee[SMTP:kenlee@...]
>> > > > > > Reply To: eq_wizards@onelist.com
>> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 11:28 AM
>> > > > > > To: eq_wizards@onelist.com
>> > > > > > Subject: [eq_wizards] Re: Digest Number 18
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > From: "Ken Lee" <kenlee@...>
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > That's another annoying problem. I was running with a monk
>that
>> > > > became
>> > > > > > pk (I'll use pk and nonpk because it's less confusing to me)
and
>the
>> > > > cleric
>> > > > > > in the party wouldn't help him at all. He even said, don't heal
>me,
>> > > > don't
>> > > > > > buff me or you'll become pk. Very cool of him.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > As to the looting issue, that's absurd. (In your favor) NO
>ONE
>> > > > should be
>> > > > > > able to loot your body unless they personally killed you.
>Another
>> > point
>> > > > for
>> > > > > > you, and that's something that I think they need to address. I
>> > didn't
>> > > > know
>> > > > > > that just anyone could pick stuff off your body. As a matter of
>> > fact,
>> > > > I'd
>> > > > > > make looting a pk body that you didn't kill turn you pk. That'd
>be>
>> > more
>> > > > > > reasonable I think. Believe me, no one's picking on you, maybe
>> > taking
>> > > > the
>> > > > > > easy way out, but not singling out pk players.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > As to coding the changes. It's more than likely that it's
easier
>to
>> > make
>> > > > > > them not be able to cast anything on you instead of being
>selective.
>> > As
>> > > > a
>> > > > > > matter of fact I KNOW it'd be easier that way. It's like having
>1
>> > switch
>> > > > to
>> > > > > > turn on all the lights in your house, or running around and
>turning
>> > some
>> > > > on
>> > > > > > and some off.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > All in all though, I think that for the moment, it'd be better
>to
>> > just
>> > > > enjoy
>> > > > > > the game as is for the moment, and work towards what changes
>you'd
>> > like.
>> > > > > > There's a fdback button there, use it and have all the pk
>players
>> > you
>> > > > know
>> > > > > > use it as well. Good to hear the comments though.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Zalbar
>> > > > > > 14th Wizard
>> > > > > > Solusek Ro
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > > > > From: John Cuyle <johncuyle@...>
>> > > > > > To: eq_wizards@onelist.com <eq_wizards@onelist.com>
>> > > > > > Date: 22 avril, 1999 14:10
>> > > > > > Subject: [eq_wizards] Re: Digest Number 18
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > >From: "John Cuyle" <johncuyle@...>
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >----- Original Message -----
>> > > > > > >From: Ken Lee <kenlee@...>
>> > > > > > >To: <eq_wizards@onelist.com>
>> > > > > > >Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 9:24 AM
>> > > > > > >Subject: [eq_wizards] Re: Digest Number 18
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >> From: "Ken Lee" <kenlee@...>
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >> Whoa. Hold on there, Iggie didn't say YOU, he said that
>there
>> > are
>> > > > a
>> > > > > > >lot
>> > > > > > >> of +pvp players that are jerks. There are also a ton of -pvp
>> > players>
>> > > > that
>> > > > > > >> are jerks as well. I'll tell you about Elyas the loser
>Paladin on
>> > > > Solusek
>> > > > > > >Ro
>> > > > > > >> sometime.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >He didn't say anyone was a jerk. He said we weren't important
>> > enough
>> > > > to
>> > > > > > fix
>> > > > > > >+PvP specific problems.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >Enabling +pvp or -pvp is a choice you make, and because Verant
>has
>> > > > > > >> decided to offer you this choice, it is also up to them to
>> > protect
>> > > > > > players
>> > > > > > >> that don't share a +pvp view. They've given you 'free zones'
>> > where
>> > > > > > >even -pvp
>> > > > > > >> players are fair game, they've given you an entire +pvp
>server. I
>> > > > don't
>> > > > > > >see
>> > > > > > >> what more they can offer?
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >Fix the PvP specific bugs. I don't care about PvP specific
>zones.
>> > I
>> > > > play
>> > > > > > >my wizard on zek where this specific issue isn't a concern to
>me
>> > since
>> > > > > > there
>> > > > > > >are no -PvP players to worry about. I'm just saying this
>continued
>> > > > > > attitude
>> > > > > > >toward +PvP is totally unwarranted. What did we do to
everyone
>> > else?
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >Are thee bugs, yes that's true, but I think that
>> > > > > > >> fixing global bugs that affect everyone will be more of a
>> > priority
>> > > > than
>> > > > > > >bugs
>> > > > > > >> that affect a single class.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >The bug I am concerned with is a global bug. It affects
people
>of
>> > any>
>> > > > > > class
>> > > > > > >on all servers. It just hurts +PvP a lot more. But the bug
is
>> > still
>> > > > > > there.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > So you have restrictions that I do not have as
>> > > > > > >> a -pvp wizard. It was your choice, so live with it. Learn to
>get
>> > > > around
>> > > > > > >it,
>> > > > > > >> and I'm sure that you'll have a much better experience for
>it.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >Huh? What are you talking about?
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >> You also have to remember that it's THEIR world you're
>in,
>> > so
>> > > > you
>> > > > > > >have
>> > > > > > >> to conform to them, they don't have to conform to you, even
>> > though a
>> > > > lot
>> > > > > > >of
>> > > > > > >> player suggestions have been implemented. I'm still waiting
>for a>
>> > > > patch
>> > > > > > >that
>> > > > > > >> will save the choice of how I view servers. Why would anyone
>want
>> > to
>> > > > view
>> > > > > > >by
>> > > > > > >> number of players once you've created and levelled your
>> > characters is
>> > > > a
>> > > > > > >> mystery to me. : )
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >No kidding. That's kinda annoying.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >> Try and remember that there's nothing that they've done
>is to
>> > be
>> > > > > > >> intentionally harmful to the -pvp class, but given a choice
>the
>> > > > majority
>> > > > > > >has
>> > > > > > >> to rule, and that majority is -pvp. Their priorities
>concerning
>> > +pvp
>> > > > will
>> > > > > > >> always come first.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >Um, you are wrong. Their priority is -PvP. This should be
>pretty
>> > > > obvious
>> > > > > > >if you have played the game at all. -PvP has no real problems
>(I
>> > play
>> > > > > > >a -PvP ranger on the Rathe). +PvP still has a couple HUGE,
>game
>> > > > balance
>> > > > > > >destroying issues that would be pretty simple to fix. From
>what I
>> > read
>> > > > > > >about the testing on the test server, it looks like they may
>> > finally
>> > > > have
>> > > > > > >addressed the issue as the looting for +PvP is supposed to
have
>> > > > changed.
>> > > > > > To
>> > > > > > >give you a brief rundown of the current problem, you are a lvl
>35
>> > > > (insert
>> > > > > > >any class here) player. You accidentally have autoattack on
or
>are
>> > > > playing
>> > > > > > >song of discord or aoe a critter that is standing near a guard
>at
>> > one
>> > > > of
>> > > > > > the
>> > > > > > >kelethin lifts. The guard kills you. ANY person who comes
>along
>> > can
>> > > > loot
>> > > > > > >you. Even lvl 1 newbies. Goodbye black robe and no way to
get
>it
>> > back
>> > > > > > from
>> > > > > > >them (four level limit). Obviously this screws up game
balance
>a
>> > bit.
>> > > > All
>> > > > > > >they need to do to fix it is apply the same loot ruels they
use
>for
>> > > > MOBs.
>> > > > > > >If you didn't kill it, you don't get to loot it.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >However, non combat spells you should be able to cast on
>> > > > > > >> others. Bind Affinity, O'Keils radiation, Invisibility,
great
>> > spells,
>> > > > and
>> > > > > > >> I'm behind you 110% in that you should be able to use them
on
>> > others.
>> > > > I'm
>> > > > > > >> sure they'll change it in the future, but how long depends
on
>> > how>
>> > > > hard it
>> > > > > > >is
>> > > > > > >> to code.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >I wouldn't think it would be that hard as most players can
>already
>> > cast
>> > > > > > them
>> > > > > > >on others, just not +PvP for some reason. +PvP spells would
>work
>> > > > exactly
>> > > > > > >as -PvP spells on a -PvP person. There is no difference
>whatsoever
>> > in
>> > > > how
>> > > > > > >they should behave. if a -PvP can cast it on a -PvP, a +PvP
>should
>> > be
>> > > > able
>> > > > > > >to. The code is all there, and all works, except they aren't
>using
>> > it.
>> > > > > > The
>> > > > > > >only sane explanation is they are punishing +PvP for
something.
>> > BTW,
>> > > > if
>> > > > > > you
>> > > > > > >are +PvP you can forget about -PvP helping you ever. They
>can't
>> > cast
>> > > > > > >helpful spells on you without becoming +PvP themselves. Of
>course,
>> > I
>> > > > play
>> > > > > > >on zek, where the only real concern is the looting issue I
just
>> > > > mentioned.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >> Zalbar
>> > > > > > >> 14th Wizard
>> > > > > > >> Solusek Ro
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >> -----Original Message-----
>> > > > > > >> From: John Cuyle <johncuyle@...>
>> > > > > > >> To: eq_wizards@onelist.com <eq_wizards@onelist.com>
>> > > > > > >> Date: 22 avril, 1999 12:08
>> > > > > > >> Subject: [eq_wizards] Re: Digest Number 18
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >> >From: "John Cuyle" <johncuyle@...>
>> > > > > > >> >
>> > > > > > >> >There you have it, even players say "screw you, +PvP
people.
>> > You
>> > > > aren't
>> > > > > > >> >worthy of a good game experience.">
>> > > > > > >> >----- Original Message -----
>> > > > > > >> >From: Iggie/Alyssandra/Jane Pierson
><ldyiggie@...>
>> > > > > > >> >To: <eq_wizards@onelist.com>
>> > > > > > >> >Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 4:27 AM
>> > > > > > >> >Subject: [eq_wizards] Re: Digest Number 18
>> > > > > > >> >
>> > > > > > >> >
>> > > > > > >> >> From: "Iggie/Alyssandra/Jane Pierson"
>> > <ldyiggie@...>>
>> > > > > > >> >>
>> > > > > > >> >> Actually I don't believe it was done to make PVP players
>> > harder
>> > > > but to
>> > > > > > >> >protect
>> > > > > > >> >> those who choose not to PVP. I can understand why you
say
>> > these
>> > > > > > things
>> > > > > > >> >> make your lives harder tho. However, I have to say that
I
>> > support
>> > > > > > >Verant
>> > > > > > >> >on this
>> > > > > > >> >> one.. there are just too many jerks out there who give
PVP
>a
>> > bad
>> > > > name
>> > > > > > >> with
>> > > > > > >> >> their antics.
>> > > > > > >> >>
>> > > > > > >> >> Iggie
>> > > > > > >> >>
>> > > > > > >> >> >> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 12:01:49 -0700
>> > > > > > >> >> From: "John Cuyle" <johncuyle@...>
>> > > > > > >> >> Subject: Re: Our class
>> > > > > > >> >>
>> > > > > > >> >> Verant has done a variety of thinks to make +PvP players'
>> > lives
>> > > > > > harder.
>> > > > > > >> >> Loot bug springs instantly to mind<<
>> > > > > > >> >>
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > >
>> > > >
>> >
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