well, i don't think i can argue ur points about "role-playing" and how
things SHOULD be in the real world, because basically, i am more of a
computer game fanatic than an outright roleplayer (i like to play games that
pit me against other human, non-predictable players, rather than
predictable, AI mobs)... but, what i can say is that a majority of the ppl
on rallos zek are unhappy with the PC faction system, and it seems that many
ppl on the non-pvp servers are unhappy as well. and not necessarily with
just any faction hits at all, but more or less unhappy with the particular
PC faction system that verant decided to slip in. all-in-all, it seems to
have been a failure (as noted by urself when u said that verant would be
removing their PC related faction system until they could find an alternate
way to implement some type of faction system that the customers are happy
with).
u make some good points, but alas, the PC faction system is now defunct (if
it is true what u say about verant removing the faction hits).
sinlaru ce`alen
rallos zek
ps. i can have my way without affecting u, because i play on the PvP server,
and u don't... isn't that why they implemented the PvP server??? :)
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian K. Rhees <
Brian_Rhees@...>
To:
eq_wizards@onelist.com <
eq_wizards@onelist.com>
Date: Thursday, July 08, 1999 10:53 AM
Subject: Re: [eq_wizards] Digest Number 147
>From: "Brian K. Rhees" <Brian_Rhees@...>
>
>> Message: 14
>> Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 21:50:52 -0400
>> From: "Tom Bratina" <gbratina@...>
>> Subject: Re: What is the best way to raise faction level with the
>Merchants of Felwithe?
>>
>> actually, it only takes about 3-5 kills to be KOS in ur own home town
>(tested with 3 different races). i have an ogre shaman friend that killed
>one dark elf, and can no longer go in the neriak bank because the guard is
>KOS to him in there now (WOW! 1 kill i asked him... he said "yep").
>>
>> Alas, the rallos zek server is PVP (PLAYER -VS- PLAYER)... not race war.
>many ppl joined the PvP server because there were no restrictions (other
>than the 4 lvl limit). now, many ppl are leaving rallos zek because of the
>restrictions they are putting in...
>>
>> as for u saying that "Each Race should stick together and fight other
>races not each other"... that's ur opinion and ur entitled to that... but
>don't push ur opinions and style of play on others... many others want to
>kill everything in site... even when roleplaying (think of the evil dark
>elf who doesn't even like his brethren or the mad ogre who thinks other
>ogres are traders because they befriend the dark elves).
>>
>> sinlaru ce`alen
>> rallos zek
>
>(Folks, please remember to snip out unnecessary text.)
>
>Sinlaru, the problem here is that whatever style Verant chooses ultimately
>effects all players. You can't have your way without affecting me, and I
>can't have mine without affecting you. Let's consider your argument:
>
>You speak of role playing mad ogres and anti social elves? Can we play
>them? Certainly. Should they be tolerated by their own races? There is
>nothing even remotely realistic about butchering your own people,
regardless
>of alignment, and getting away with it. So do it and be KOS in your own
>city. That's role-playing. Anything else is mindless nonsense. Being
evil
>doesn't mean being stupid.
>
>On a related subject, people have also argued that duels shouldn't result
in
>faction hits. Stop and think for a moment how many societies you can name
>that smiled on dueling. In western culture, it has generally been an
>illegal (but sometimes tolerated) practice limited to aristocracy. You
>often risked execution if caught.
>
>What I would agree with you on is that the faction system is far too
>simplistic. Dueling ought to raise your faction with the enemies of your
>antagonist, and with certain others within your own group who favor that
>sort of behavior. General militia ought to hate duels, and elite guards
(in
>some societies) ought to favor it. But, personally, I think that faction
>ideally should be an order of magnitude more complex than even this. Did
>you power game to level 15 attacking low blues? Then perhaps you've earned
>the respect of conservative factions, but those who consider themselves
true
>warriors ought to scoff at you. Did you always throw yourself into battle,
>taking massive damage, on your march up through the levels? Then maybe you
>are adored by the plebes and chum with the guards, but the rest of the
world
>considers you an idiot. And, of course, in duels, the assailant ought to
>incur the brunt of the faction adjustment. And, also, if no one sees it
and
>no rumor gets out, it didn't happen, etc. Very tricky thing to implement
>correctly.
>
>The ideal is ultimately very simple. NPC's should treat you--based on your
>behavior--just like a PC would of similar station. Here's an example for
>you to chew on.
>
>The other day in S. Karanas, a PvP player assisted in an attack on Grimrot.
>At the end of the fight when everyone was healing, another PvP player came
>in and attacked, without warning, eventually killing the PvP player. Many
>non-PvP players were upset because they couldn't do anything to help and
>simply had to watch their comrade die.
>
>You think the PvP assailant lost "faction" with the PCs? You bet. Should
>he therefore have lost it with certain NPCs? Of course.
>
>There are problems with faction right now. And of course that's why Verant
>announced that they had eliminated faction hits on PvP kills as of
yesterday
>and are working on a more elaborate system, including (possibly) an
>aggressor flag.
>
>The thing you need to keep in mind is that many of us non-PvP players would
>love to play PvP if the system were set up with realistic consequences.
>Why? Because we like to role play and the non-PvP system makes it very
>difficult to do so under certain situations. Persistent kill stealing, for
>instance, and severe twinking of characters (you know, the 4th lvl wizard
>with observer's staff and oracle's robes?) are not things that could
persist
>in a realistic gaming environment. But to argue for a system of no faction
>hit on PvP kill just encourages the mindless butchering of PCs in the so
>called name of "role-playing." And it is something I will argue against
>anytime someone advocates it.
>
>Glyphin E'Mondredon
>The Rathe
>
>
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