> Message: 14
> Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 21:50:52 -0400
> From: "Tom Bratina" <gbratina@...>
> Subject: Re: What is the best way to raise faction level with the
Merchants of Felwithe?
>
> actually, it only takes about 3-5 kills to be KOS in ur own home town
(tested with 3 different races). i have an ogre shaman friend that killed
one dark elf, and can no longer go in the neriak bank because the guard is
KOS to him in there now (WOW! 1 kill i asked him... he said "yep").
>
> Alas, the rallos zek server is PVP (PLAYER -VS- PLAYER)... not race war.
many ppl joined the PvP server because there were no restrictions (other
than the 4 lvl limit). now, many ppl are leaving rallos zek because of the
restrictions they are putting in...
>
> as for u saying that "Each Race should stick together and fight other
races not each other"... that's ur opinion and ur entitled to that... but
don't push ur opinions and style of play on others... many others want to
kill everything in site... even when roleplaying (think of the evil dark
elf who doesn't even like his brethren or the mad ogre who thinks other
ogres are traders because they befriend the dark elves).
>
> sinlaru ce`alen
> rallos zek
(Folks, please remember to snip out unnecessary text.)
Sinlaru, the problem here is that whatever style Verant chooses ultimately
effects all players. You can't have your way without affecting me, and I
can't have mine without affecting you. Let's consider your argument:
You speak of role playing mad ogres and anti social elves? Can we play
them? Certainly. Should they be tolerated by their own races? There is
nothing even remotely realistic about butchering your own people, regardless
of alignment, and getting away with it. So do it and be KOS in your own
city. That's role-playing. Anything else is mindless nonsense. Being evil
doesn't mean being stupid.
On a related subject, people have also argued that duels shouldn't result in
faction hits. Stop and think for a moment how many societies you can name
that smiled on dueling. In western culture, it has generally been an
illegal (but sometimes tolerated) practice limited to aristocracy. You
often risked execution if caught.
What I would agree with you on is that the faction system is far too
simplistic. Dueling ought to raise your faction with the enemies of your
antagonist, and with certain others within your own group who favor that
sort of behavior. General militia ought to hate duels, and elite guards (in
some societies) ought to favor it. But, personally, I think that faction
ideally should be an order of magnitude more complex than even this. Did
you power game to level 15 attacking low blues? Then perhaps you've earned
the respect of conservative factions, but those who consider themselves true
warriors ought to scoff at you. Did you always throw yourself into battle,
taking massive damage, on your march up through the levels? Then maybe you
are adored by the plebes and chum with the guards, but the rest of the world
considers you an idiot. And, of course, in duels, the assailant ought to
incur the brunt of the faction adjustment. And, also, if no one sees it and
no rumor gets out, it didn't happen, etc. Very tricky thing to implement
correctly.
The ideal is ultimately very simple. NPC's should treat you--based on your
behavior--just like a PC would of similar station. Here's an example for
you to chew on.
The other day in S. Karanas, a PvP player assisted in an attack on Grimrot.
At the end of the fight when everyone was healing, another PvP player came
in and attacked, without warning, eventually killing the PvP player. Many
non-PvP players were upset because they couldn't do anything to help and
simply had to watch their comrade die.
You think the PvP assailant lost "faction" with the PCs? You bet. Should
he therefore have lost it with certain NPCs? Of course.
There are problems with faction right now. And of course that's why Verant
announced that they had eliminated faction hits on PvP kills as of yesterday
and are working on a more elaborate system, including (possibly) an
aggressor flag.
The thing you need to keep in mind is that many of us non-PvP players would
love to play PvP if the system were set up with realistic consequences.
Why? Because we like to role play and the non-PvP system makes it very
difficult to do so under certain situations. Persistent kill stealing, for
instance, and severe twinking of characters (you know, the 4th lvl wizard
with observer's staff and oracle's robes?) are not things that could persist
in a realistic gaming environment. But to argue for a system of no faction
hit on PvP kill just encourages the mindless butchering of PCs in the so
called name of "role-playing." And it is something I will argue against
anytime someone advocates it.
Glyphin E'Mondredon
The Rathe