Just for clarification, I'll assume when you say "you", you mean the vauge,
general, collective "you", not me in particular, as you've not once seen me
complain, but rather, just this once, try to speculate as to exactly why so
many are so upset. Now, on to your points:
What you say about the social evolution of games is true, but I'll wager
most of the EQ players about today didn't grow up with bridge night with
the Jones' from next door. For them, this is largely a new phenomena.
Nor, do I recall that anyone has once stated that their existing friends
deny them groups and interactions. So, discard that paragraph.
The biggest voices haven't complained about not being instantly* accepted
into groups, but rather not being excepted into groups at all in situations
where their friends aren't available. Discard that paragraph.
Funny thing about social interactions...they vary from environment to
environment, from situation to situation. Just because you aren't
experiencing what these guys are, doesn't mean they aren't, nor does it
invalidate their claims. Discard that paragraph.
If you get upset in traffic, then I suggest you stop driving. If you get
upset at work, then quit your job. Why do people keep throwing this silly
argument out? When the rules change, and this change negatively impacts a
person, that person is going to complain. Their particular situation may
allow them to find a way around it, as I and others have. They may accept
that that aspect of their being is gone and try to move beyond it and
continue to enjoy themselves with what remains as some have. They may give
up and pursue another course as still others have. They are upset that they
had found an ideal venue to exercise their social needs as well as play a
fun, fantasy-based RPG. The rules have been altered in such a way as to
negatively impact that. To say that they should go to a chatroom is just
plain silly.
Look, if you want to help, stop further insulting them and making them feel
worse. Instead, do this:
1) Come up with examples and arguments demonstrating that they can still do
everything they used to, or alternately propose new ways in which they can
explore and express.
2) Present those ideas and examples.
3) Then go on your merry way, as all the counter-complaining you can do
won't help or ameliorate the situation. Let them vent. Once they cool off,
they may or may not take your suggestions to heart. They may or may not
come up solutions that are acceptable to them. Either way, arguing and
complaining on your part (or Stone's, etc.) is not going to make Chuy, etc,
feel any better or positively affect their situation.
Lei
Warrior-Poet
Bristlebane
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Gaines [mailto:dave@...]
> Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 9:53 AM
> To: EQ-Monks@onelist.com
> Subject: Re: [EQ-Monks] Digest Number 122
>
>
> From: Dave Gaines <dave@...>
>
> Wow.
>
> Well, before the dawn of computer about 20 years ago,
> practically every
> game out there invovled social contact. A few exceptions like
> "solitaire"... Computers came along and let us play games
> completely by ourselves. But we for the most part find most of these
> games not nearly as fun as games with other people.. Thus games
> like DOOM and Warcraft II and Diablo, now UO and EQ and AC let us
> again have social contact.
>
> If your friends suddenly do not allow you into your group
> because you are
> not quite as powerful as before, then maybe you should look
> at that friendship and see if thats what it is. Not too many
> of the people I call friends online give a hoot about my game power.
> Just like I always invite Joe, the worlds worst golf player to go
> with us to play golf, real friends shouldn't care if you walked up
> and said flying kick was removed, you should still be immediately
> grouped.
>
> Now the monk isn't suddenly instantly accepted into the group. Well
> guess what, neither are bards (pre level 32). Neither are wizards
> (unless you're going to hate), neither are warriors, neither are ...
>
> From the way you talk, monks are social rejects now because
> feign death
> isn't as powerful, and that just isn't so.
>
> Yes it is more difficult, as you are not as useful, but every class
> has their power tuned (nerfed or enhanced) occasionally, and if you
> can't cpe with these kinds of changes, then I suggest you stop
> playing EQ and join chat rooms to meet friends. Verant can't put your
> ability to make friends easily above the need to balance the game.
>
>
> > From: "Goode, Jason" <JGoode@...>
> >
> > Hrmmm...no, if you give it more of a bit of intropection,
> that's not really
> > true. It's a different type of game than say, Heroes of
> Might and Magic,
> > where this statement would be valid. This type of game has
> a twist to it -
> > the human social element. That, I think, more than
> anything else is what
> > elevates it beyond a game to many.
> >
> > Humans are social creatures as a species. We, as a
> species, have a deep and
> > abiding need to interact with others. In this way is how
> it (and any
> > MMORPG) transcends being "just a game". It doesn't have
> anything to do with
> > the code or the virtual mobs that you virtually slay, but
> rather the people
> > beyond the icons with whom you will tend to build real
> relationships - often
> > without realizing it. Whether it's with your drinking
> buddies in a bar
> > watching the game, going out dancing with your girlfriends,
> or sitting in
> > the king room in Sol B, killing kobold and
> role-playing/BSing about your job
> > in the down time, makes no difference. Social interaction
> is still social
> > interaction, regardless of the arena it takes place in.
> >
> > If I had to speculate, I'd say that the changes to feign
> death, or perhaps
> > more accurately now, non-monks perceptions of monks due to
> the changes in
> > feign death, negatively impact the ability of monks to
> continue to explore
> > the social aspect of the game, i.e., difficulty getting
> into groups of
> > strangers, thus not being able to share in a group activity
> and make new
> > friends, etc., that is the most damaging aspect of what has
> transpired and
> > the core root of the anger and outrage many monks express.
> >
> > Just my thoughts...take them for that and nothing more.
> >
> > Leikung
> > Warrior-Poet
> > Bristlebane
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Dave Gaines [mailto:dave@...]
> > > Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 9:09 AM
> > > To: EQ-Monks@onelist.com
> > > Subject: Re: [EQ-Monks] Digest Number 122
> > >
> > >
> > > From: Dave Gaines <dave@...>
> > >
> > > It should not be more than a game. Because that is ALL
> it is, a game.
> > > If its more to you, then you seriously need to stop "playing" it,
> > > readjust your life, realize how little those bytes stored on
> > > a computer
> > > in california really should mean to you.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > From: Seamus McNeill <smcneill@...>
> > > >
> > > > its more than a game to some.....
> > > >
> > > > ~S
> > > >
> > > > >
> > >
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