Wow, this is getting interesting, we seem to have 2 different opinions
here, the nukers and the melees, hehehe. Well I think this is really fun
to discuss on, just like the days when we used to have a PK or non-PK
discussions in UO. ;)
I think both sides got their own points and we do have something in common
- to role play and play maturely. YY stressed on role-playing and believed
in sharing, but not everyone we met in EQ is like our good old YY. We have
to recognise those assholes who surface every now and then. For me, it's
all depends on how other treats me. For eg, I once healed a GM Mage in UO
at T2A after he was hurted by evil mages to 30% HP. I used up most of my
mana to heal him, only to see him suddenly started to nuke me! What is
this? I'm trying to help him and in return he tried to pk me (Dr.
AnimalLover, still remember his name, a GM mage and GM tamer). I managed
to recall out and for the rest of the week, my guild camped at the same
spot hunting him. He died so many times that in the end he recalled out
the moment he see any player with our guild abbrev, hehe.
Leshrec is correct that we cannot please EVERYONE. Pple like to whine when
they lost their kills, well..not their kills actually. On the other hand,
have u wondered why they con't to hit the mob even they knew you start to
nuke? Simply becoz they are also trying to get the kill. To me, it's a
fair game if both side start to attack at the same time. Tankers will
always hit the mob 1st since they dun have a casting time delay. On my
part, I try not to nuke the moment I see the mob hp dropping by 5%, coz due
to lag the mob may be actually dropping more than 10% hp. Even at HH, when
there is more than 1 spawn, I always try to position myself such that I can
target on the new mob which none has started to attack. That's why unlike
those real stealers, I always get my HP drop below half after fighting one
battle.
Players like Appleboy, Phenix and Senear had all invited me to join their
team b4, but I never bother to even reply them. Where got time to tell
them why I dun wanna team with them? Afterall, it better to make friends
than to make enemies. Simply bo chap them and act blur lor. H/w, if they
are in trouble, I 101% will just let him rotted. My UO vice-GM (now the GM
after I retired) Wil, is damn too kind hearted to ressurect, heal and gate
those pkers after he hunt them down, I never do such things. For me, if
others is guai-lan, then I will be more seah-lan, make them lan-pa-pa-lan,
hahahah ;)
When it comes to named mob, many of us have the experienced teaming with
some loot stealers who run off after they looted. That's why I would
rather solo when I cant find good team. It may take long due to the down
time, but I feel more better that way. Yesterday I team with Demistry,
Megu, Ling, Fox and Ezmacro. Other than Ez, the rest are all team mates.
We were fighting very vigorously for kills at HH becoz there are 2-3 big
groups there. Later the named orc spawn and everybody start to whack. We
got the kills in the end coz we have 2 wiz and 1 magi nuking non-stop. Dem
got the kill but he is very nice to split with the rest. Ez make any offer
to buy it at 30pp but Dem told us someone buying it at 90pp just one day
b4. So in the end, since Ez is good friend of Ling, we settled with Ez
paying everyone in the team 10pp each. Now that's what I mean by sharing,
and it can ONLY happened when everyone is mature enough to share. Try
explaining to pple like Phenix? Nah, save my breadth to steal all his
killb better, hehe.
I still remember the hard life I used to have as a newbie wiz - almost solo
most of the time since we have no say in a group and no one wanna team with
us except our own kakis. We got stolen many times as well. Until now I
still cannot forget the lvl 12 cleric who steal all my kills at G Faydark
bandit camp. I didnt say a word at that time - I tried to nuke but get
nothing. In the end I just walk off quietly.
While I was in HH yesterday soloing, I was invited by 2 gps to join them,
one even has a lvl 20 enchanter in the gp. That show tat the experienced
mature players can tell who is the real stealer and who is the nuker.
One last point. Pls do not forget the down time we had while mediating.
There are more than enough orcs spawn during the period which allow us to
take turns. H/w, due to our class nature, it's impractical for us to take
turns, esp when we are soloing. It may take us longer time than expected
to med, and very often the other groups wont be so 'nice' to wait for us to
regain mana and take our kills (agreed?). Thus in reality, soloing wiz
often nuke, hide somewhere mediating, come back nuke again etc etc. This
is the way we nuker solo. Of coz, until now I'm refering to solo nuker and
not stealers.
I remember joining Garren's team at lvl 10-12 hunting derv and orc, and I
must say that is the most organised group (but the worst group I ever
joined is also led by Garren, at Guk remember? Hahahahah!) I ever joined.
Even at low lvl, we managed to hunt alot. This show that with proper
organisation, group still gain in the long run, coz nukers cannot steal
forever, we need to mediate. I understand very well at below lvl 12,
casters, esp wiz, is not welcome most of the time, since we do not
contributed much. There goes my old days having a VERY hard time finding a
group to join. Pay attention to those shouting, I really cant remember any
hunting group looking for casters, esp wiz. The only time I heard someone
mentioned wiz is when they need to bind, hehe.
Read my char profile, I called myself a CHAOTIC good wiz. Lawful good is
very hard to survive in game or in RL. ;)
It's not our fault that nukers get to kill faster, hehe.
The only time I REALLY steal is when someone called me a stealer - this, I
never fail to satisfy them, hehe.
Ziltus
On Monday, 05 July, 1999 6:19 PM, Gary Qui Hong Loong
[SMTP:
kanglun@...] wrote:
> From: Gary Qui Hong Loong <kanglun@...>
>
> I agreed with what Leshrec is saying. If the Wiz is in a group and he
> managed to outblast and get the kill, then it's my group composition is
wrong.
> But if the friggy wiz is soloing, I screw him upside down if possible.
like
> leting him solo the named orc, heal the named orc etc (but I heard is
that u
> can't heal npc anymore), or train tons of orcs into him and tell the
group to
> zone out.
On Sunday, 04 July, 1999 6:02 PM, Leshrec [SMTP:
leshrec@...]
wrote:
> From: "Leshrec" <leshrec@...>
>
> This is a rather long post. You have been warned =)
> This is that I think of steal killing in Highhold. If a tank or warriors
> starts attacking the mob, then I don't think its wrong to blast it, IF
you
> start blasting when hes just started on the mob. This is for a very
simple
> reason, if all the mob he attacks is gonna by his, he will get everyth
ing,
> especially those in groups, where there are clerics in it. Since there is
> practically no downtime. Anyways, if you start blasting it, the mob will
run
> over to you and attack you, so if anybody else starts shooting at it,
they
> are just helping you to get kill. I have seen orc fanatics that have
spawned
> and die in 1 sec after, becos 6-7 casters shoot at it at the same time.
> Usually the player who does the most damage with one spell , usually the
> magician or the wizard would get branded a stealer just because he is a
> loner and has no group. Of course those assholes which are really out to
> steal kill can be seen very obviously, like what ziltus has mentioned,
> waiting for tank to do 20-30% damage before shooting. However, In my
opinion
> if i shoot a mob when you are just starting on it and I kill it after he
> beats on me, although a tank type or some other caster shoots at it, I
don't
> really care if you brand me a kill stealer. If I spend 30% of my mana on
a
> mob instead of 80%, its not because I want to, but rather its because
other
> caster are trying to blast my mob, so that they can get kill and when
they
> don't get it, they get pissed and call you names again. Thats why its
very
> important to get a group, since you have your own tankers tanking and you
> nuking. As for named NPC, its FFA but when you do get the kill ppl will
> curse and swear saying they waited 20 hrs for the named NPC. Well, If you
> can't get the kill yourself, get a damn caster who can nuke for you. I'm
> sick of ppl whining cos they can't get kills especially when I shoot at
the
> named one and even when he comes to me, the other tanks from other groups
> continue to beat at him and expect to get kill. I myself have always
grouped
> from level 16 to my current level, and there was only once when I tried
to
> do solo and do what other wizards did. I must admit xp came in very fast,
at
> a rate of 1 bubble per hr so I could level in a day. But the only group
was
> there got pissed and one guy even wanted to duel me, a level 21 ranger.
Of
> course I just ignored him and did almost 3 bubbles of xp that day. One
funny
> thing later was how his group ran and zone leaving him alone fighting 2
orc
> scouts. Seeing he was about to lose, I became visible (I am invis when
> medding) and he asked for help. Of course I helped him out, but he still
> called me names later on. However that was the only time I soloed like
that
> and of course it was very lonely not to mention getting tells on "Thats
not
> very nice. But I don't think you care anyways" Well, hes right on I don't
> care. I once heard of a guy in Nektulos forest saying "If I can train a
> skeleton on you. Then its your problem". If that is one guy attitude,
there
> must be many others who have this type of attitude too.THat happened when
I
> was in Prexus server playing my necro. I myself have kenna like that, I
sit
> on floor medding and suddenly 2 skeletons jump on me. I was like level
6-7
> and that meant instant death. Of course the skeletons were not spawned on
me
> but rather trained on me. Since many people have this type of attitude, I
> don't see why I must care what people say. This is what I think, if a
player
> steals your kills and asks for help later, by all means let him die since
he
> deserves it.
> As for reputation, high level wizards are often invited into groups
more
> often than not. Since you can't make EVERYONE your friend anyways,
although
> its always better to have more friends than enemies. I think most people
> don't really care if you have an experience on stealing kill or not. This
is
> so because if you steal kill FROM them they won't like you. But if you
steal
> kill FOR them, they will all praise you and even want to group with you
more
> because they know who can get the xp and who can't. However on Loot
stealing
> I have seen ppl being shunt before because they loot a named NPC and run
> off, ignoring their OWN group members. Loot stealing is absolutely lame,
if
> you don't wanna share your loot, DON'T GROUP and DON'T whine if you can't
> get the kill. If you want to steal kill, go make a wizard or magician or
> druid and see how hard it is to get your XP, especially at the lower
levels.
> I have seen a druid which purposely did 50% of damage and let tanks
finish
> it off, so that he could get the xp, and he was soloing. Another time at
> gnolls, my friend received tells from another group on how he can't get
the
> kill on the named NPC because that guy had a druid friend which he
claimed
> could outblast him. So my friend ask me to help him get the kill and we
did
> get the named NPC. Of course this resulted in the other group being
> extremely unhappy and cursed at us. However in the end we still got what
we
> wanted and the other group with nothing.
> Just my 2cents worth of opinions.
>
> Leshrec Kalesk'Thor, High Elf Wizard of the 6 Sixth Circle.
> Innoruuk Server
>
>
On Monday, 05 July, 1999 12:12 PM, Alex [SMTP:
leealex@...]
wrote:
> From: "Alex" <leealex@...>
>
> Ah, To each his own.
>
> The following does not refer to ZIltus or anyone. Zil does raise an issue
> for me to make my stand.
> Bearing in mind that reputation supersede Lvling. I for one has left and
> break off from groups at HH Pass becos of stealin and "Unfair" spliting
of
> Kills.
> Im much much more tolerant on Friends and Guild Members ( double
Standard?)
> Look. There R lotsa Orcs in HH pass and they do Spawn Fast. so i dont see
> how ppl dont want to "share" kill. there r alway just one guy there that
> will steal kill. Usally magic caster. The Copper trick works sometime and
i
> do used that on them. Or , the whole group could go to the tunnel and
lets
> all the orcs hit him hard.If there r more than one group, that be
difficult
>
> I personnlly do NOT want to Steal just so i can lvl. I will leave that
spot
> to pratice some other stuff (safefall, throwing or melee). And im VERY
vocal
> about steals there too. I'll use comments like "Thieves and Prostitutes"
,
> Yes i offend ppl with my statement . It suppose too!If / When im invited
in
> a Group and one of a "Balcklisted" Stealer is there, I'll disband and not
> join and Publicly announced why i did that. Im a Monk and i Rolepaly it
> some of the time. So if the Char is Bad, neutral, good, etc,so i dont
> expect a evil char to have good moral.
> Personlly, It crazy to spend my Time and Money(isp charges) to "Fight"
over
> Orcs.I want to enjoy the game. Lvling is no Big deal :P
> Hmm... maybe thats one of the reasons I lvl so slowly...I dont mind.
>
> There were good times at HH pass when 2 groups cna agree and share turns
on
> kills, 6/6 or 10/10 orcs. After a good hunt there. I will OOC to praised
and
> Salute the other group Civil and High standard of conduct. I will
mentioned
> the name of the group leader and indiviual persons in the group. I
believe
> this could encourage ppl to have civility
> and good behaviour.
>
> Go ahead steal, and i'll go ahead to comment and critiize.
> To each his own. ... and bear the consequences of bad reputations
>
> Yiyang at Innorruk
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> '
> -----Original Message-----
> From: LKW <leekw13@...>
> To: <sg-everquest@onelist.com>
> Date: Monday, July 05, 1999 10:12 AM
> Subject: [sg-everquest] Clarification on Stealing
>
>
> >From: LKW <leekw13@...>
> >
> >I'm now based at HH, soloing. Downtime is long but get all the xp.
> > Actually if wiz wanna play punk we can rise lvl pretty fast, by
stealing
> >(huh? Leshrec is rising lvl fast? well...errr..hehehehe). So far what I
> >did is to attack the moment when the mob spawn, which normally draw the
mob
> >to me and turn to a melee + casting battle. This way is quite ok, but
some
> >pple at Ro still call me a stealer. They forget that my down time is so
> >long (normally used up at least 80% of my mana and 1-2 bubb of my HP).
For
> >this kinda pple I normally scold back or use the ignore command on them.
> > Those wizs in HH really "aim' nicely and start nuking when the mob hp
drop
> >by 30-40% (At one time I just sit next to them and observe how they
hunt).
> > Btw the time mob turn to them, the mob only left 10-20% HP. If I were
to
> >follow their style, I think I will lvl much faster, coz this method
means
> >they just nuke 2 times (hurt more than 50%) and let others finish their
> >kill, and they got less down time and more loot. H/w, this method also
> >spoil a wiz reputation and not very nice to do, so I choose the harder
way.
> > So for all the new comers out there, pls do not make noise if a wiz is
> >using his body to tank and got a kill just becoz he kill faster then u.
> > Make him frustrated he may change his mind and start "stealing" from u,
> >hehe. If u wish to take turns to kill, pls ask when u enter a camp. Me
> >personally quite bo chap if those high lvl players just step in and
start
> >hunting. My opinion is - if they just step in and hunt, they are trying
to
> >compete for kills, so no need to give way. I ever come across a necro
from
> >Higher Order of Arcane at lvl 16 (name is Malten), and he spam me for
> >stealing his kill, simply becoz I nuke and his pet attack same time. Of
> >coz, my nuking is far more damaging than his little pet, draw the mob to
me
> >and he spam all the way. So irritating that I use the ignore command on
> >him, heheh. Btw, one of the big stealers at HH now is Senear, the lvl
17
> >wiz, also from Higher Order of Arcane. He and another guildmate of his
> >were nuking whole day at HH yesterday. They steal from groups of lvl
> >18-20+ melee fighters. In the end the other groups all invite me to
join
> >theirs becoz they can see I only nuke and dun steal, and my nuking plus
> >their melee can take back some kills.
> >
> >Last piece of advice, if u are camping at certain spot, and a wiz of lvl
16
> >(below lvl 16 we still quite sux, hehe) and above is also camping there,
> >either ask for rotation or move elsewhere. A wiz can steal from a melee
> >char of 8-10 lvl above him. No joke. Even if you are are in a full
house
> >of melee chars of the same lvl as that wiz, the wiz can still steal, if
he
> >wants. So if the newcomers come across this kinda CB players, it's
wiser
> >to move on to another camp, coz it's only waste of time to stay there (u
> >are helpnig him to kill only).
> >
> >Btw, even wiz can be quite guai lan at time, but IMHO the most seah-lan
is
> >high lvl enchanter. Not only they just hunt by charming mobs to kill
> >themselves (ie hunt without even using their hands, heh). Make them
> >frustrated they can train all the mobs on u, hehe.
> >
> >FYI, if u hunt around NRo, there is a PvP dwarf name Broughm who like to
> >train SG to non-PvP players, I bet this is the only way he can kill
those
> >non-PvP players. Kinda sick minded - kill for the fun of killing. He
> >train cutts to me twice, one time almost kill me and 2nd time killed
> >himself, heh.
> >
> >Ziltus