Remember Celestial from UO? They started off just 1-2 weeks after tDw.
They grow pretty fast and big and at one time beat tDw in numbers.
Problem with rapid expansion is the quality of the members, esp those new
recruitment - looters, blue pkers all start to pop in using the name of
Celesitals to do evil deeds. Frankly speaking, my greatest pride in UO is
my guild, The Dark Wardens. We expand pretty slow, starting off with only
local players (some of the other locals join TAA and Celestials), and later
more come to join us for our good reputation. We are very strict in
recruiting new members and I never hesitate to ban all who fail to follow
the path of honor and valor - even for local players. Somehow we become
one of the top five biggest veteran guild in Baja, and we are still
expanding with the 2nd generation guildmaster Wil. Until today I'm still
confident to say every members above the initiate ranking (those under
initiate ranking mean they are undergoing the probation period) is an
honorable player in Baja shard who follow the path of the avator. Seeing
how QHD is run, I do fear that one day it will follow the path of Celestial
(where bad doers overtake the control of the guild and all good old pioneer
members start to leave the guild) or Higher Order of Arcane (where new
members join for the name and go around doing bad deed like stealing
kills). In fact, out of all the kill stealers I met, the biggest portion
comes from HOOAA, since their members have the best capability to do so -
casters steal from tank, wiz steal from other casters etc.
H/w, the most helpful char I meet in EQ (not just help own friends but
extend help to all others, esp newbies, in the realm) is also from HOOAA -
Fiona (still remember her name when she help me during my newbie times, and
still recently see her helping others in HH keep just a week ago).

IF we are going to form our own guild in EQ, not doubt it's not our
intention to form a formal guild, I still proposed a certain disciplines to
be established b4 hand. EQ is not like UO, where size matter during big
guild fight (eg 20 vs 20 etc), so I think keeping the size small is still
alright, provided everyone know each other well and have faith in the guild
memebers to fight till the very last moment hand in hand. We dun have to
go around specially going good deeds, we just play our style but definitely
no evil deeds like stealing kill or training for the purpose of pking. For
me, I have no intention to role-play a lawful good char like Dark Flame in
UO, but I will not drop below true neutral in EQ ;)

It's sad to see the HOOAA guildmaster disbanding such a big guild but I
must salute to the guildmaster who make such a right yet painful decision.
With these last words from HOOAA guildmaster, my final impression of the
guild is still "YOU GUYS KICK ASS!" *SALUTE*!

I remember most of the Celestials members are more pvp-capable than tDw
members in the begining, but in the end we ultimately win them, with good
reputation too. Same principle in EQ - everyone will ultimately reach lvl
50 at the end of the day, but ask yourself - what kinda lvl 50 would you
wanna be? I would rather pick a mature, loyal and honorable newbie as
guild member rather than getting those high lvl players who sux bug time in
reputation.

Ziltus

On Thursday, 05 August, 1999 4:39 PM, Cheng Shan Chieh, Freddy
[SMTP:sccheng@...] wrote:

> check out this email from someone relating to many issues in Higher Order

of Arcane Arts (if u r interested)... i gues that happens when ya guild
have too many people...

>
> Nic
>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------

> SC Cheng, Freddy
> Mobile-Internet Laboratory, Multimedia Laboratory,
> NTT DoCoMo R&D Center C212,
> 3-5, Hikari no Oka, Yokosuka-Shi,
> Kanagawa, 239-8536, Japan
> Tel : +81 468-40-3497
> Fax: +81 468-40-3788
> Email : sccheng@...
>
>
> From: Curtis Baum <phantasi@...>
> To: Dan Voels <dan_voels@...>; Zeke <bumbler123@...>;

Zeekeal <eritt@...>; Zargand <davidhill@...>; Zarcon
<wizzarcon@...>; Yeirielle <perrinz@...>; Yaman
<gary@...>; Wizartar <Wizartar@...>; Wanren
<brac8496@...>; Vyrlanthix <tvanallen@...>; Vyndahlu
<tlittle1@...>; Ulvian 2 <craig@...>; Ulvian
<highelfmage@...>; Udainius <pdow@...>; Tsarian
<darius_hfire@...>; Trybune <cleeson@...>; Treeash
<Wiskybar13@...>; tafu <tmj@...>; Surak
<melnibone@...>; Stalglover <tjhusker1@...>; Skadi
<webmaster@...>; Scarry <gbartell@...>; Rumenia
<ChbiArith@...>; Rubin <jr12830@...>; Rownin
<bkg@...>; Riun <tim.churcher@...>; Rcane
<phantasi@...>; Rayst <caziarc@...>; Qumen <bul
lsfn@...>; Quazzii <hookah4216@...>; Omnicron
<cfryers@...>; Ommien <tr00p5@...>; Olarin
<Orchrist@...>; Obee <charleythomas@...>; Nuyen
<ronin@...>; Nrokfo <jmichalica@...>; Niven
<unbeliever_0@...>; nebo <warren89@...>; Meydrelkoth
<jhawley@...>; Meara <meara@...>; Malten
<Zephyr879@...>; Maegara <rbowie-reed@...>; Lutanius
<simurgh@...>; Lotherat <nelsong@...>;
Lorec <magius99@...>; Lemrick <chuck.stanley@...>; Larin
<chaser@...>; Lamination <robocop@...>; Krolof
<rinkzoo@...>; Koratal <tblack@...>; Kieron
<markcol@...>; Katania <kiljoy@...>; Kassandra
<griffin_c_@...>; Karasu <sturmcrow@...>; Kalak
<eqdruid@...>; Kajin <frog42@...>; Jakkal
<wmg70@...>; Idien <k.tatebe@...>; Iadan <opus976@...>;
Hifi <damianj@...>; Halidor <atogguy@...>; Greay
<hobbes_74@...>; Grassroot <celtcub@...>; Gexo
<Charles9@...>; Garet <maario@...>; Ganymede
<mi6_007jamesbond@...>; Focalpoint <lifesyphon@...>; Fizzel
<salmendi@...>; Feniktil <andy_fen@...>; Felion
<shantor@...>; Felalron <bob.ogden@...>; Fastasia
<reginawon@...>; Fastasia <darren@...>; Falkin
<cw_reenactor@...>; Ezno <ntj455@...>; Ethorie
<dawnrising_chix@...>; Enyyen E <enyyen@...>; Endaria
<hirs1267@...>; Elimester <Octo13@...>; Elewane
<dreamr39@...>; Elemenster <gardners@...>; Eeeyun
<eeyan@...>; Dystopia 2 <'Oggie@...'>; Dystopia
<Robert.T.Ogden@...>; Drakonar <ParrisAnthony@...>;
Dolomite <TRIPODBOB@...>; Degofroi <KBuffington@...>; Decedo
<rogern@...>; Darothan <maim3340@...>; Dadge
<daadge@...>; Cumbus <ubedoc@...>; Crimsonsoul
<oh_chilly@...>; Cimbal <Thomas.Mitchell2@...>; Cayman
<MThames@...>; Carok <Tulalos@...>; Caprise <jpodest@...>;
Calyen <phantasm@...>; Calarin <chodgson21@...>; Burlabus
<aristo@...>; Buffe <cw500@...>; Boscoe
<watts@...>; Avalion <mrclikie@...>; Asdin
<Dollx6@...>; Arkainz <r.fishman@...>; Arcanis
<jjj519@...>; Aoxmodeus <RJansen@...>; Allayna
<maryw@...>; Alhazred <The_Saint@...>; Ahyandil
<jegger@...>; Abiumar <dskaar@...>; Arba
<arba1@...>

> Subject: The End of an Era
> Date: Monday, August 02, 1999 10:14 PM
>
> It is with a very heavy heart that I write this message, I have stared

deeply into my crystal ball, weeping with every sight.

>
> The Higher Order of Arcane Arts no longer possesses the soul that it was

created for. Though many members are honorable and aid their bretheren,
the majority have fallen to the temptations of Power and seek to use the
Higher Order for their own personal gain, hence destroying the Honor of the
Higher Order.

>
> As I stare at the golden plaques behind me, and read the vows to myself,

I weep with the knowledge that though all have vowed the same vows, many
have cast them aside.

>
> The Vow of Honor:
> I hereby vow to uphold the honor of the Order and never Disgrace it.
>
> Even after my many beseeches regarding honor, especially in the area

of Kill Stealing, there is still debate regarding honor. It saddens me
that many have not a clue what honor is.

>
> The Vow of Knowledge:
> I hereby vow to email the Arch Master, so that he may keep me

informed of events of the Order.

>
> At the time of this message, I am still missing many many emails. (I

have 89 of 111 people). Those that never fulfilled this vow, will
unfortunately not recieve this information, and will remain in the dark.

>
> The Vow of Research:
> I hereby vow to assist the research of the Order in any manner

possible.

>
> I have had 4 people ask regarding zones, and 3 regarding items, out

of the 111 afore mentioned. Many others did assist the Order with research
materials and hints, I congratulate you, but at the same time I mourn those
that never did.

>
> If the cancer of the Order was minor, I could remove it. The cancer

has infected the lasting reputation of the Order, and has caused those that
did follow the vows to leave the order in search of assistance elsewhere.

>
> Only a handful of the Magi recall the days of glory and honor for the

Order, but unfortunately those days have fallen to an end. I hope that all
of you will remain in touch, and I am sorry that I must do this. For the
Good of Norrath, I have disbanded the Higher Order of Arcane Arts, until
such a time that it can be restored to what it was.

>
> I dream back upon days when people actually auctioned for members of the

Order specifically so that they could be bound.

>
> I recall when people throughout Norrath sought out the Higher Order as a

place of learning, not as a source for dishonor.

>
> I cannot let pass the merry days of aiding fellow magi, helping with

monsters, assisting spell research, funding what Jewelcraft ability I could
in our early enchanters.

>
> I weep at the actions I must take, and I know not my own course at this

time. The facts have dealt a mighty blow to Rcane. I created the order
and was blinded as people destroyed my dreams of what should be. I have
fought for months to make this the best guild in all of Norrath, now it is
tainted. The only recourse I have is complete destruction to atone for my
own blinded ignorance. Rcane may live, or he may die. The events that
passed have wounded me greatly.

>
> I bid thee farewell, those that I called brothers. And I wish thee luck

in finding whatever happiness you seek in Norrath.

>
> Rcane