> From: Wizard <wizard@...>
> Subject: Re: Subject: Big look to wizard class, new ideas - very long
>
> At 10.10 02/07/99 -0400, you wrote:
> >From: "Brian K. Rhees" <Brian_Rhees@...>
> Here you stated some capital mistakes i will try to make it a little bit
clear
<snip>
> >I've paired (ungrouped) with many spell casters and done damage
> >comparisons, etc. Magicians and enchanters run much less often, but they
> >divide xp with pet.
>
> Pet gets experience ONLY if it is to give a killing blow if you time right
> with enchanter wich is most dificult to control its pet as it dont have
> /PET commands you can never lose any exp !
I know the theory, but I've watched it in practice also. Pets do steal xp
from their casters. Maybe not all the time, but a lot. Some. Enough.
> They *should* run less often; they're not really
> >soloing. Same with necros. Want to see what happens when a magician or
> >enchanter truly solos? It's a joke. Ever see a magician try to get off
a
> >DD spell when a mob is hitting him? Heh. Heh Heh.
>
> >Even though we run a lot, we don't split the xp with a pet. I've matched
> >other spell casting classes on xp earning rate hour after hour.
>
> same race same class casters all get same amount of experiencce, dark elf
> wizard, magician, necro and enchanter get same amount of exp for killing
> same monster if they are all grouped and same lv.
You are correct, but that wasn't what I was arguing. Pets do take xp. Not
all the time, but some. Rate depends on the level of the pet summoner and
the pet and the skill of the summoner in controling who gets the kill. At
any rate, when they summon or charm a pet, the spell caster is not actually
soloing. Therefore, they shouldn't run as often as wizards. Just as you or
I don't run very often when we pair with another player. And when they have
their pets, these spell casters really don't level faster. I know, I've
read the enchanter sites that talk about how to solo with a pet and I've
watched magicians jumping in with that last DD spell to get the XP, but for
some reason, hour after hour, regardless of their tricks, I manage to match
them with XP gained (note: I'm talking only about when we are both
ungrouped). I tend, therefore, to be very skeptical of people who talk
about all of the advantages of having a pet. Yes, it contributes to
differences in playing style and, heck, it may even help them earn xp
faster. But we're not talking about huge amounts. We're not even
approaching the differential we see with, say, druids (I met one a couple of
days ago at lvl 20 with less than 7 days playing time).
On the other hand, when a magician, enchanter, or necro decides to drop
their pet (either because of the xp, or because they have cross zones a lot,
or they are low on reagents, etc.) then they are not as effective as
wizards. When it comes to pure soloing, we beat them hands down as we
should. As for the pet stealing or not stealing xp bit, I assure you that I
used to pull to guards and let them be my pets. We only have to get last
blow in then also, and with a little practice we can play that game too.
(Fun way to tackle yellow beetles in N Karans, btw, when one Guard comes out
of the tower. Just have to learn to time that last shot.)
On another topic entirely, we also beat other spell casters (usually) in DD
when it comes to grouping. Many groups don't like pets for XP reasons, so
our ability to perform a bit more damage a bit quicker comes into play. Are
these benefits actually useful? IMO, yes. Most of the time, it's not a big
deal, but wizards 1) provide great protection against kill stealers, and 2)
our ability to rain damage down faster than anyone is extremely appreciated
when a tank is low on health, about to die, and a mob is going agro on it.
I can't tell you the number of times that my ability to inflict 300+ points
of damage in 4 secs meant life or death to a party member.
<snip>
> Ehehehe no wizards are not bad they are one of best in a game but when i
> talked about our mana inefficient use it was in role of wizard as mana
100%
> dependent, every fizzle, or resistence hurt a wizard much more then other
> class and also you will note then when you start using lower lv spells in
> combat so that you dont do too much damage in group fight you use less
> efficent mana to damage spells ! ! !
Well, you may be correct here. I've heard other classes complaining (I was
next to a lvl 24 enchanter yesterday who wouldn't shut up about it, for
instance), so I've assumed that the problem is a general one. However, I
haven't played the other spell caster classes to really make a fair
comparison (if in fact that is possible, with how much the engine gets
tweaked from one week to the next). I will give you this: Wizards are
extremely difficult at low levels. We generally are shunned, have low
offensive skills and no defensive capabilities, etc. I started a cleric
recently and couldn't believe the difference in how people treated me, and
how easy things were. Things are a bit better for me now as a lvl 24
wizard. I can almost always find a group, but it is sort of a grudging
acceptance thing--i.e. they know I'm valuable but aren't in the habit of
admitting it (setting aside grouping with friends, of course). It is a real
pleasure though to hear them say, "pulling mob," and to give them my mana
report (of, say 30%) and to hear the rest of the group start shouting,
"DON'T PULL." Hehe. Finally, some respect.
> >> 3.) Resistance of high lvl mobs BUT also low lv ones
>
> >Resistance of low level mobs is annoying, but something which I've heard
> >other classes complain of as well. In my case, it doesn't happen that
often
> >(don't know if it is affected by caster stats), but I don't see this as
an
> >especially big problem. The wizard just has to have an escape route
> >planned, or know how to get help.
>
> Many times you pass by higly aggresive low lv mobs wich start a little
> trains of jet lower lv mobs on you especialy thrue in dungeons and wizard
> to get rid of this annoying and no exp no loot guys have to spent much if
> not all its mana. PAE spells are not effective and fast enough to get off
> without interupton and they use too much mana in any case. So your only
> solution is to gate as gate probably will get off. Only other tactic is
> root all move and kill with DD spells as you cannot use AE spells for not
> risking to get all rooted bobs get a chance to break root. So it is very
> dificult and anoying time dealing with green guys.
I haven't had problems with this, personally, but then I've stayed out of
doors mostly. After I left GFaydark and Butcherblock (lvl 9ish), I went to
N. Karanas (to lvl 14ish), Oasis (17) then to High Hold Pass (18), then to
East Karanas (19), Lake Rathtear (23), and now S. Karanas (24). And I've
seen players lvl to 30 in S. Karanas, so I may stay awhile. I did make
visits to Blackburrow, Paw, Crushbone and Befallen, but I usually didn't go
into them until most of the lower lvl mobs would leave me alone. I agree
though that PAE spells are increadibly useless. Here we have this,
supposed, last line of defense that has an increadibly high mana consumption
to damage ratio, long cast times and does little damage. (And don't give me
#@%!@ about good damage ratio when you have 3 mobs on you. Due to casting
times, you're lucky if you can ever get a PAE off twice. You will never
kill dangerous mobs with them). Great way to suicide, Verant. But of
course, since I always try to dungeon crawl as the highest lvl player in my
group, in those cases I'm not usually the one who gets jumped. And that
changes everything, IMO.
<snip>
> It is true you can swich to low level spells and then you consume much
more
> mana do do same damage it go from 20 to 40 mana more for same ammount of
> damage, i use it many times i swich to my 38 damace ice shock and im first
> nearly never resisted seccond mobs dont get on you but a prob is that i
use
> much more mana doing that than any other class of my level and using low
lv
I use shock of lightning as my low lvl spell. The damage ratio isn't great,
but it's not bad. I can get it off, sheez, 12 times in a fight, maybe???
Usually, if my group is training high level mobs that we can't kill by my
11th shot, we're all dead anyway. Anything less than 3 reds, we can take,
usually. Anything more and we should be running like girly girls anyway,
IMO. If things get really bad, I've always bound within zone next to border
and will gate there to med and wait for the retreating party. Then I can
fire off 2 to 3 more shots and maybe turn the tide when they reach me, or
zone as required.
> spells you first are not any more a class wich can deal most damage in
> period of time, when you try to finish Running High lv mob by running in
> dungeon after him as it resist your roots, your fighters cant hit it hard
> enugh and you can only hit it for only as much damage as it heal alone in
> that time then you ask yourself about why i cant use a high lv spell to
> simply kill it right in place?
I know that feeling. Btw, I almost never root. I let the rangers and such
use their low lvl snare. Works much much better. Mobs that are snared can
be successfully hit in the back, attacks don't disrupt snare (unlike root),
and the mobs never turn to fight. I think you are correct though in asking
why not just use a high lvl spell to simply kill it. I almost always do
exactly that. I time my last (and usually second) blast of Shock of Frost
to coincide with the mob hitting about the 160 hp mark. 80-90% of the time,
it kills the beast. If that fails, my group always has some redundent
strategy in action (such as the snare). And sometimes it all fails and we
run screaming :)
> Other isue is about killing some capital guys it gives you big pleasure to
> be a part of a time wich win against a mighty dragon Lady Vox and it will
> also give you a right to loot that feabuled rune wich you need for your
> Mighty 1100 damage spell wich all dream about. But she will be alwas red
to
> you and will alwas resist all your spells 100% then wich group will get
you
> in in this big hunts if you are useles as wizard?
I have no answer for this, except to note that Verant has pretty much said
that they are making changes to Lady Vox right now. Unless you are lvl 40+
right now, I think you are worrying prematurely. We really don't know what
fighting Vox is going to be like, for any of the classes. Also I've been
wondering if the 6 lvl magic casting limit gets pushed up at higher levels.
Can anyone answer this for certain?
> I dont wisht to get to lv
> 50 only to find this. One of main problems and discusions what i see
around
> is for lack of informations and open dialog with a players from part of
> verant that is one of a things when i must discuss some opinions where
> neither side not i not you dont know how the things realy looks like
> probably we are both wrong!
Heh, exactly.
Anyway, thanks for your comments, etc.
Glyphin E`Mondredon
The Rathe