At 10.10 02/07/99 -0400, you wrote:
>From: "Brian K. Rhees" <Brian_Rhees@...>
>Silverion, you are a higher lvl wizard than I am, and you've made some
>very interesting and helpful posts in the pasts--all this to say that I
>intend no disrespect with the following. I just thought I'd reply to
>your points, some of which I disagree with.
Ehheeh im glad on your comments i think that only by dialog and
confrontation of ideas we can make them improve or be canceled once for all.
>> 1.) Many people hate wizards as kill stealers and think they are too
>> powerful with their fast transport by teleport so they don't have to be
>buffed
>> any more ! (WRONG)
>
>I agreed with you on everything you said in this section, except that
>wizards die the most. I've spent the last two weeks in Lake Rathtear going
>from about 18 to 23. I died, I believe, twice--once when everyone was
>shouting for me to run. (I wanted just one more shot <hehe>) And, in
>general, I don't die that often. I'm very careful, I tend to use landscape,
>distance, and timing to my advantage, I run when resisted twice (or root and
>run) when soloing, and try to group.
>Now wizards can die a lot, and that depends on where they are, what they
>fight, etc. I have a couple of friends over in Najena and they love it and
>have gotten used to retrieving corpse once or twice nightly. But, at the
>same time, they tend to earn xp at a faster rate than I do because of the
>mobs they take. I think, to a degree, it balances. With respect to Aviaks,
>I've found they can be very tough to solo. Depending on which ones you're
>fighting, they get multiple attacks, hit hard, and if it wasn't for the xp,
>we probably wouldn't go after them. They are not well suited for
>wizards--similar to gorge minotaurs, I believe. Even when green they can be
>quite dangerous. But plop us next to an embalmer, a high shaman, an evil
>eye, etc., and we shine. A lot has been said on this list about carefully
>picking mobs when soloing, and I agree. And when grouping, this isn't an
>issue.
>As to your kill stealing points, I think you are absolutely correct. Anyone
>that plays that game is not seeing the large picture (unless they're in it
>for the RP element, I suppose, and want to be hated and vilified). And it's
>not like they're earning xp at a greater rate, or loot either. I can still
>power game a level a day, if I want, by grouping. I can earn 30 to 40 plat
>in an evening easily, and I'm not making any enemies--just friends.
>
>> 2.) mana inefficient use !
Here you stated some capital mistakes i will try to make it a little bit clear
>I'm sorry, but you haven't convinced me of anything here. Yes we get
>resisted a lot. And like others have said, I've noticed that when you cast
>a spell in a fight makes a huge difference on its chance of being resisted.
>End fights with the big blast, don't begin them that way, etc. I think
>where wizards have the hardest time is getting used to the shame of running.
>If a mob resists two of your blasts, even if it's green, consider running.
>Root, then run. Annoying? Heck yeah. But we should almost never die while
>soloing, and when our resists don't fail we can take down a mob faster than
>anything. I've paired (ungrouped) with many spell casters and done damage
>comparisons, etc. Magicians and enchanters run much less often, but they
>divide xp with pet.
Pet gets experience ONLY if it is to give a killing blow if you time right
with enchanter wich is most dificult to control its pet as it dont have
/PET commands you can never lose any exp !
They *should* run less often; they're not really
>soloing. Same with necros. Want to see what happens when a magician or
>enchanter truly solos? It's a joke. Ever see a magician try to get off a
>DD spell when a mob is hitting him? Heh. Heh Heh.
>Even though we run a lot, we don't split the xp with a pet. I've matched
>other spell casting classes on xp earning rate hour after hour.
same race same class casters all get same amount of experiencce, dark elf
wizard, magician, necro and enchanter get same amount of exp for killing
same monster if they are all grouped and same lv.
>Now the obvious rebuttal is the ole, "well, when I was in (location X),
>(class Y) was performing much better than I was." Very very true. I'm sure
>some of you have seen mid to high teen druids soloing in Crushbone, or out
>in N. Karanas kiting, etc. We all know that some classes have leveling
>sweet spots (the druids appear to be lvl 1 to at least 20 <grin>). Such as
>the 16th lvl necros, and the sand giant slaying that has been common in
>Oasis (don't know if it still happens). I'm only lvl 23, but I've noticed
>that *most* of the people I know who I started out with, regardless of
>class, are still in my level range. It seems to me that even if wizards
>aren't especially great at leveling, we aren't particularly bad off. There
>is another way to look at this, but I'll get to that momentarily.
Ehehehe no wizards are not bad they are one of best in a game but when i
talked about our mana inefficient use it was in role of wizard as mana 100%
dependent, every fizzle, or resistence hurt a wizard much more then other
class and also you will note then when you start using lower lv spells in
combat so that you dont do too much damage in group fight you use less
efficent mana to damage spells ! ! !
>> 3.) Resistance of high lvl mobs BUT also low lv ones
>Resistance of low level mobs is annoying, but something which I've heard
>other classes complain of as well. In my case, it doesn't happen that often
>(don't know if it is affected by caster stats), but I don't see this as an
>especially big problem. The wizard just has to have an escape route
>planned, or know how to get help.
Many times you pass by higly aggresive low lv mobs wich start a little
trains of jet lower lv mobs on you especialy thrue in dungeons and wizard
to get rid of this annoying and no exp no loot guys have to spent much if
not all its mana. PAE spells are not effective and fast enough to get off
without interupton and they use too much mana in any case. So your only
solution is to gate as gate probably will get off. Only other tactic is
root all move and kill with DD spells as you cannot use AE spells for not
risking to get all rooted bobs get a chance to break root. So it is very
dificult and anoying time dealing with green guys.
>What really hurts is the resistance of high level mobs. I've found my
>personal solution, but I guarantee most of you aren't going to like it.
>
>I try and group only when I can be within a lvl or two of top player. Yes
>this restricts who I group with, but not as much as one might think. And I
>can always, always, always hit the mob because groups in their right mind
>don't take mobs 4 or 5 levels higher than their highest player [I should
>probably qualify this by saying "sometimes," "almost never," etc., but I
>think you get the gist of what I'm saying]. I switch to lower damage spells
>to play the resist odds and not attract the mobs attention, and I always
>account for my share of the damage (usually 100 to 200 pts damage per mob).
>This means, of course, that I won't be going into High Keep or deep into
>Najena for a while, because I couldn't do that without joining a much higher
>level group. Restrictive? Yes. But Najena, High Keep and Permafrost
>aren't going anywhere. I just reset my mentality to visit them 2 to 3
>levels later than most classes.
It is true you can swich to low level spells and then you consume much more
mana do do same damage it go from 20 to 40 mana more for same ammount of
damage, i use it many times i swich to my 38 damace ice shock and im first
nearly never resisted seccond mobs dont get on you but a prob is that i use
much more mana doing that than any other class of my level and using low lv
spells you first are not any more a class wich can deal most damage in
period of time, when you try to finish Running High lv mob by running in
dungeon after him as it resist your roots, your fighters cant hit it hard
enugh and you can only hit it for only as much damage as it heal alone in
that time then you ask yourself about why i cant use a high lv spell to
simply kill it right in place?
Other isue is about killing some capital guys it gives you big pleasure to
be a part of a time wich win against a mighty dragon Lady Vox and it will
also give you a right to loot that feabuled rune wich you need for your
Mighty 1100 damage spell wich all dream about. But she will be alwas red to
you and will alwas resist all your spells 100% then wich group will get you
in in this big hunts if you are useles as wizard? I dont wisht to get to lv
50 only to find this. One of main problems and discusions what i see around
is for lack of informations and open dialog with a players from part of
verant that is one of a things when i must discuss some opinions where
neither side not i not you dont know how the things realy looks like
probably we are both wrong!
>
>Couple of last points to Silverion's post:
>
>There are several weaknesses to the wizard class. I grant that. But I
>think the bottom line that Verant is looking at is the overall leveling rate
>(from level one all the way to level 50).
Im agree on this one 100% and it is very difficult to give right opinions
when you dont have enough data disponible from overall picture.
If, after a few months, it looks like wizards aren't getting to the top
at the same rate as other classes,
>I'm guessing they'll do something. But really, I'll expect modification to
>be more in the nature of toning other classes down, not enhancing ours.
>Why? Because I think they have a feel for how difficult they want the game
>to be, and the difficulty we experience is the desired amount.
>I have one other comment. I think it is a bit easy to get caught up in the
>whole fairness issue, which is very artificial. After I take my wizard as
>high as I want, I'll start another class and play it until I get bored, and
>then start a third. Some classes will be easier than others, and I'll get
>around to them sooner or later. I personally have no desire to see Verant
>spending all of their time trying to make things perfectly balanced for all
>classes. [I wouldn't even mind if the game were set up like rock, paper,
>scissors--i.e. in dueling (just pulling names from thin air) Wizards of a
>certain level are always better than Warriors, who are always better than
>Bards who are always better than Wizards.]
>
>Glyphin E'Mondredon
>The Rathe
>
>
>
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